Micro-flats are coming to London and could help solving Dublin housing affordability crisis.

GJG

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I couldn't agree more. I'd imagine such hoarding isn't only causing a huge problem with housing, but its also preventing regeneration of our cities and many of our larger towns.
Not only that, but it also perverts demand, meaning that we get 'commuter' accommodation built on green fields in Longford and Wexford, while hundreds of hectares of land in Dublin 1, 3, 8, 7 and 12 are idle and derelict. The last half-hour of the 2-hour commutes that those people buying in Longford and Wexford have is spent crawling past the vacant sites that they should be living in.
 


CookieMonster

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Micro-flats are controversial, some would say they are perfect for singles, students or young couples if designed properly, some others thing these are pure evil destroying lives.
Should we allow similar in Dublin to help solving the housing affordability issue?



Micro-flats might be just what London needs to solve the housing crisis | Metro News









[video=youtube;gcklkn5ZGZk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcklkn5ZGZk[/video]
There is absolutely no need for this sort of thing in Dublin.

Proper regulation, building code and standards should easily be able to provide for adequately sized high-density sustainable homes in Dublin city centre.
 

Deadlock

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Not only that, but it also perverts demand, meaning that we get 'commuter' accommodation built on green fields in Longford and Wexford, while hundreds of hectares of land in Dublin 1, 3, 8, 7 and 12 are idle and derelict. The last half-hour of the 2-hour commutes that those people buying in Longford and Wexford have is spent crawling past the vacant sites that they should be living in.
Agreed!

The issue is - who applies and how do they collect a sanction that prevents hoarding and allows (re)development to take place.
 

Fr Peter McWhinger

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Stick a block of them beside the Four Courts they would be very handy. They have huge capacity to reduce commuting if you want to use them a few nights a week.
 

Roberto Jordan

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Dublin is full of green space, much more so than New York. Plenty of nice cafes too.
1) Much more? Are you sure? there are lots of small green spaces in the city , before one gets to the big ones like battery park, central park, the hudson river as far south as midtown etc. Public transport between these is also an order of magnitude better

2) the weather - it rains less than half the time it does in dublin , where 2 days out of 3 see rain.Theres a reason why a large percentage of bars have windows that can be popped out weather permitting but such an idea is rare ( at leats based on my recollection) in ireland

3) the sidewalk/ footpath width
 

Roberto Jordan

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Great stuff. Dublin's suburbs are chocoblock with 24 year olds sharing 3 and 4 bed homes and trying desparately to get a turn on the cooker/in the bathroom. These people don't want to live together but are forced to because the family sized suburban semi d is the only consideration in housing in this country. They'd all much rather a tiny, yet private, space in the City Centre. I know I would've loved it at 23, instead of sharing with boggers who didn't know how to live without a mammy.
Correct. Studio apartments are a god send for someone with a bit more rent money or a little bit of capital in most actual big cities.
 

Spanner Island

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We don't need smaller flats, there is plenty of room, if you go up rather than out.

What is with the phobia of building up in Dublin. Plenty of space in the city, just look upwards.
There's a weird prioritisation of old stuff over new stuff regardless of whether the impact is negative on the lives of those alive today.

I'm opposed to sporadic high rise as high rise tends to look better when clustered... but there is no reason in the world why there couldn't be a number of zones in Dublin where high quality high rise could be developed and be far higher than anything we've got now.

The tedious obsession to preserve Dublin's low rise skyline is a fatuous endeavour considering how the city has developed and grown and sprawled in recent decades...

Commuting is a misery that will see many in early graves.
 

GJG

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Stick a block of them beside the Four Courts they would be very handy. They have huge capacity to reduce commuting if you want to use them a few nights a week.
as long as its clean...safe..secure...you don't have to sell a kidney to rent one and for short term accommodation for 1/2 people....go for it
The flaw in your thinking is to imagine that that would be in addition to whatever else would otherwise be built, rather than instead of it. Why would the people who are sitting on those sites release them when they won’t do it now?

And if those sites were to be released, why not build a proper mix of family homes and apartments for singles, instead of an effective dormitory ‘a few nights a week’ of people with zero investment in the community?
Agreed!

The issue is - who applies and how do they collect a sanction that prevents hoarding and allows (re)development to take place.
It’s easy. All land in the country is zoned for something.

For land zoned for housing, you start with a rebuttable presumption of vacancy, and the vast bulk of locations are crossed off by associating PPS numbers with the Eircode they have for tax purposes. At the very end disputes can be resolved with electricity bills and planning applications. Maybe one in 1,000 would require a site visit.

It would also be good for catching out people who are using land held in false names as a way of laundering assets.

Political will is the issue, not logistics.
 

Roll_On

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1) Much more? Are you sure? there are lots of small green spaces in the city , before one gets to the big ones like battery park, central park, the hudson river as far south as midtown etc. Public transport between these is also an order of magnitude better

2) the weather - it rains less than half the time it does in dublin , where 2 days out of 3 see rain.Theres a reason why a large percentage of bars have windows that can be popped out weather permitting but such an idea is rare ( at leats based on my recollection) in ireland

3) the sidewalk/ footpath width
per head there is WAY more green space in Dublin
It rains, your point was about green space, what's the relevance?
 

Roll_On

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the microflat is probably an extreme solution. There are simpler alternatives:

-Normal sized studios
-10 storeys high with a small balcony
-No parking. Singletons living in central Dublin don't even want parking but DCC insists on it
-Shared laundry facilities and drying room on every floor
 

users

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the microflat is probably an extreme solution. There are simpler alternatives:

-Normal sized studios
-10 storeys high with a small balcony
-No parking. Singletons living in central Dublin don't even want parking but DCC insists on it
-Shared laundry facilities and drying room on every floor
Balconies are great for hanging out the washing and attaching dishes to.
You seem only to be concerned about accommodation for singletons.
 

popular1

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There is no question that there is an affordability issue. This post presumes that the cause of that is that people (through the market or government regulation) are demanding outrageously lavish accommodation such as separate rooms for cooking and sleeping, driving the price beyond their means.

It’s not.

The cause of our sky-high accommodation prices is a cartel of land-hoarders and developers drip-feed the market, releasing just enough to make them millions without stopping the spiral in prices. There is a fixed amount of money that is the maximum people can spend on accommodation, while still feeding themselves. The demand for accommodation is totally inelastic – people will spend any money not to sleep on the streets, therefore the seller has more power than in most markets.

The aim of the cartel of land-hoarders and developers is to extract all of that money, for as little value as possible. In any other market, that would attract new suppliers, equalising supply and demand, but it’s not possible for people to create new building land, again increasing the power of the sellers. That power is expressed in government decisions to reduce building standards, allowing the cartel to reduce the value while keeping prices high, and for tax breaks, to put even more money in their pockets.

The only way to reduce the cost of accommodation is to rebalance the market in favour of consumers, for example by introducing a penalty for hoarding land.
You forgot the bit about creating an u natural bulge in demand due to mass migration of a scale never seen before in the history of the state which I believe is one of the biggest causes of the housing crisis join a queue to rent in Dublin and tell me how many irish are in the queue.
But no one mentions this in the equation.
 

Voluntary

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Do you envisage the young singles buying or renting these apartments? Also I'm not sure how building more small apartments for young singles will free up family homes?
You see, the difference is I don't envisage them anything. If they want to rent, they could rent, if they want to buy - they could buy, maybe they would like to buy to stay for a while and then rent out later on to other youngsters? Free country.
 

GJG

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You forgot the bit about creating an u natural bulge in demand due to mass migration of a scale never seen before in the history of the state which I believe is one of the biggest causes of the housing crisis join a queue to rent in Dublin and tell me how many irish are in the queue.
But no one mentions this in the equation.
That conspiracy theory just doesn't hold water for a variety of reasons.

First, Ireland has - by a mile - the lowest population density in the EU15, and Dublin is one of the thinnest-populated metro areas in Europe. There are, still, thousands of viable sites in the city centre that are lying derelict.

The second is that the building industry was massively (and still is, though less so) the recipient of migrant labour, the second most important resource that yields housing. Migrants built far more homes than they occupy.
 

Roll_On

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Balconies are great for hanging out the washing and attaching dishes to.
You seem only to be concerned about accommodation for singletons.
-This thread is about "micro-flats" i.e. accommodation for singletons
-It is a type of accommodation that is non-existent in the Dublin market, singletons are forced to share 3 and 4 bed suburban homes, which inflates the cost of the family home and pushes families out
 

Voluntary

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Better than sleeping rough. But not great if you have a large family. Not much privacy.
micro-flats are not intended to house families. Why every single home in this country needs to be family oriented? One size usually does not suit all.
 

Voluntary

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So, the vision is that if you're earning 60 grand a year you can live in a shoebox? Right.
That's basically often the choice, you get 3-bed with garden on city's suburbs with 1+ hour commute or you get a 'shoebox' in the city, 3 minutes walk from your office, 2 minutes away from all your favourite clubs and pubs etc. Sacrifice space for social life and no commute time.
 


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