Middle Class

Red Stag

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So - what does it take to be middle class in NI or at least their percieved lifestyle?
 


cry freedom

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So - what does it take to be middle class in NI or at least their percieved lifestyle?
Be a protestant farmer
Live on the Malone road
Own your own house or pay your own rent
Be a member of the Alliance party

Just four observations from an ignorant Southerner:oops:
 

GridLock

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Middle class are always in the sh@t taxed beyond their means what can they do most middleclass people are the fools that took out interest inflated mortgages in the boom ireland years,what they didnt tell you is that they knew ireland was beyong inflation,some middle class people bought stocks and shares and were lied to!
 

Red Stag

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Be a protestant farmer
Live on the Malone road
Own your own house or pay your own rent
Be a member of the Alliance party

Just four observations from an ignorant Southerner:oops:

I usually see it as people running about in cheqered shirts, jeans, justin bieber hair and talking llike they are a castrated american but I suppose thats the aged 14-26's roughly though.

Living on Malone well I know most of these ones come from outside of Belfast entirely and certainly not prod farmers ;)
 

Cato

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There is incredibly clouded and contradictory thinking on this site concerning the different classes and who exactly belongs in them. Miriam Daly thinks that anyone who works for a wage, no matter how much they are paid. Others tend to define it by mindset or attitude.

What exactly is the middle class and who belongs in it?
 

SevenStars

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Miriam Daly is talking a very reductionist view....I believe its not solely a matter of relation to the means of production but also of social power.
 

Cato

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Miriam Daly is talking a very reductionist view....I believe its not solely a matter of relation to the means of production but also of social power.
I would be very interested to see you expand on that.
 

SevenStars

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Actual middle class is Lawyers, Doctors, Senior Clergy people, senior technicians, sciencists, managers with the power to hire and fire.

Than you the lower middle class....The self-employed, small shop keepers, drug dealers, etc.
 

SevenStars

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The power that comes with a perceived status in society.
 

Cato

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I take it that one can move through the classes depending on one's employment or ownership, or loss of ownership, of the actual means of production? Is class a fluid concept in your view?
 

Cato

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SS, from a socialist point of view, what is the importance of the class of an individual? Can one transcend one's class?
 

SevenStars

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I take it that one can move through the classes depending on one's employment or ownership, or loss of ownership, of the actual means of production? Is class a fluid concept in your view?
In my personal opinion it has a combination of several factors....Your relationship to the means of production, the level of power you exercise within work (especially the power to hire and fire, but to a lesser how much you are an order giver or an order taker...And your social power...I wouldnt call a student doing a summer job "working class").

Of course an individual person is not reducible to their placing with the matrix of power and production within society....However your place in it does to a large degree condition how you will perceive reality.
 

SevenStars

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SS, from a socialist point of view, what is the importance of the class of an individual? Can one transcend one's class?
There are loads of socialist views....What do you mean by transcend?
 

Cato

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There are loads of socialist views...
Not like you to engage in evasion. ;) What is your view of the importance of class?

What do you mean by transcend?
transcend |tranˈsɛnd| |trɑːn-|
verb [ trans. ]
be or go beyond the range or limits of (something abstract, typically a conceptual field or division) : this was an issue transcending party politics.
• surpass (a person or an achievement).
While one may belong, according to your or another's definition, to a certain class, can one escape the limitations and consequences of the membership of that class?
 

cry freedom

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I take it that one can move through the classes depending on one's employment or ownership, or loss of ownership, of the actual means of production? Is class a fluid concept in your view?
You can , on the surface, move from one class to another.
In a small country like Ireland though, you are never too far from someone who remembers the day when you, or your parents, "didn't have an arse in their trousers"
There is always some little indicator too about class. I see it mostly when a few too many drinks are taken. "Whats in sober comes out drunk"!
Or, "You can take the man out of the bog but you can't take the bog out of the man"!
People also have different views about class. My view is a of a behaviorist nature. No matter what their status I cannot view anyone who indulges in bad behavior as "upper crust". Good grace and good manners transcend property and status.
The mask also slips when a pretender runs into unforeseen trouble. How they behave when things go badly wrong is another good yardstick.
"Grace under pressure", and all that kind of thing, don't you know.:cool:
 

SevenStars

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While one may belong, according to your or another's definition, to a certain class, can one escape the limitations and consequences of the membership of that class?
Well yeah....You can social climb. You can also social descend.

Obviously we share a single nature and class is a social imposition upon that rather than being something essential to it.
 

Cato

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Well yeah....You can social climb. You can also social descend.

Obviously we share a single nature and class is a social imposition upon that rather than being something essential to it.
...and the importance of class, in your view?
 


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