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jams odonnell

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you're about as funny or original as Hal Roach :roll:
I am assuming that Mr Roach is an Irish Jim Davidson. In which case I must say touché! You have my number so to speak.

We are both on the same side and we should put our differences aside and work together to make Brexit a success.

Please do your best not to be too angry when interacting with Irish web users as you vividly describe the ways in which the EUwaffenSSR has destroyed that lovely country which has a very special place in our hearts.

Being concerned about a hard border while drinking a Guinness after a game of hurley shapes the native discourse much more effectively.

I expect that you are aware of this already but I appreciate that you are your own man and somewhat frustrated that all your good work on behalf of Geert Wilders and Marine Le Pen came to nothing.

I very much enjoy your stimulating and exciting commentary, and the flashes of real insight that pepper your work on a consistent basis. Keep up the good work!

I am sorry that we have not been able to authorise an overseas allowance for your current posting but I can assure you that I am continuing to work very hard on your behalf.

A strong and stable Brexit. Going back to the past to create a better future for all.
 

shiel

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You are so braindead .
Ah no.

Just stating the facts of Irish history.

The land confiscations, the plantations, the penal laws, the starvation of millions, the failure to implement an act of the imperial parliament giving Home Rule to the island of Ireland and the plunder of this island took place over a period of nearly 800 years of colonial domination by the English.

The signing of the Good Friday Agreement which was supported by the vast majority of the people on this island was designed to draw a line under that nearly eight centuries of exploitation.

What did the English do at the first opportunity?

By voting for Brexit they tore up the Good Friday Agreement.

In contrast this country signed a treaty with nearly thirty other European democracies to cooperate in matters of mutual interest in a continent that had been reduced to ruin by two totalitarian dictators.

What did the English do?

They also tore up their agreement with nearly thirty other European democracies.

In contrast to the nearly 800 years of colonial exploitation in the short period we have been in the EU we have made a net gain of 43 bn euro and have access to home market of 500 million people.

How can anyone want to leave the EU and go back to colonial dependency on the English?
 

FunkyBoogaloo

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You realise, that EFTA members have basically the same obligations in regards to EU law, paying into the EU budget, they just get no say on anything ?

How does having to follow laws in which you have no input, increase your sovereignty ?
They have the power of the veto.

Also what input do you think 11 MEPs out of 751 have? Virtually none, that's what.
 

shiel

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They have the power of the veto.

Also what input do you think 11 MEPs out of 751 have? Virtually none, that's what.
Should we be sending MPs to London instead of MEPs to the European parliament?

Should we withdraw our government ministers from the council of ministers that makes the decisions for the EU?
 

Passer-by

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Leave, and join EFTA, I say.
To point out some facts:
1) Leaving the EU does not result in any automatic membership of EFTA. Membership of it must be applied for and is not guaranteed.
2) The EFTA members states may well decide that it is not in their interests to admit us as it may upset their relationships with the EU. They get along fine with the EU as they are not seen by the EU as competing with it.
3) Even should we be admitted, EFTA membership gives us free trade with four countries only. None of these are important markets for us - Offhand, I think only one of them is a "top 20" market for us.
4) EFTA membership would not cover EEA arrangements. The EU member states are under no obligation to admit new EFTA members to the EEA (whereas EFTA members must admit new EU members to the EEA).
5) Our existing EEA membership would not cover us leaving the EU and/or joining EFTA. The treaty specifies the existing members states and classifies them and their rights and obligations based on whether they are an EU member state or an EFTA member state (excluding Switzerland which has a cumbersome set of treaties with the EU that largely replicate the EEA).
6) And that doesn't even touch on Schengen membership which the EU member states may we'll insist upon as a de facto condition for facilitating us for new or altered EEA membership.

Hence you are basically proposing we gamble the economy since those US multinationals aren't going to hang around waiting if we wake up and discover that our trade faces tariffs not just from Brexit Britain but also the EU and possibly even EFTA should they decide they want nothing to do with us.
 

FunkyBoogaloo

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Should we be sending MPs to London instead of MEPs to the European parliament?

Should we withdraw our government ministers from the council of ministers that makes the decisions for the EU?
No... and what a stupid question.

Obviously not while we're members. However therein is mostly used the QMV system. Which means Irish input is effectively neutered.. unless it chimes with that of the big boys in the club.

To point out some facts:
1) Leaving the EU does not result in any automatic membership of EFTA. Membership of it must be applied for and is not guaranteed.
2) The EFTA members states may well decide that it is not in their interests to admit us as it may upset their relationships with the EU. They get along fine with the EU as they are not seen by the EU as competing with it.
3) Even should we be admitted, EFTA membership gives us free trade with four countries only. None of these are important markets for us - Offhand, I think only one of them is a "top 20" market for us.
4) EFTA membership would not cover EEA arrangements. The EU member states are under no obligation to admit new EFTA members to the EEA (whereas EFTA members must admit new EU members to the EEA).
5) Our existing EEA membership would not cover us leaving the EU and/or joining EFTA. The treaty specifies the existing members states and classifies them and their rights and obligations based on whether they are an EU member state or an EFTA member state (excluding Switzerland which has a cumbersome set of treaties with the EU that largely replicate the EEA).
6) And that doesn't even touch on Schengen membership which the EU member states may we'll insist upon as a de facto condition for facilitating us for new or altered EEA membership.

Hence you are basically proposing we gamble the economy since those US multinationals aren't going to hang around waiting if we wake up and discover that our trade faces tariffs not just from Brexit Britain but also the EU and possibly even EFTA should they decide they want nothing to do with us.
Yes. I know all of that. We began gambling our economy decades ago so there's no real need for you to get po faced about it now.
 

Passer-by

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Yes. I know all of that. We began gambling our economy decades ago so there's no real need for you to get po faced about it now.
You may an economic death-wish for the country. Fortunately the overwhelming majority of people don't and never will.
 

FunkyBoogaloo

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You may an economic death-wish for the country. Fortunately the overwhelming majority of people don't and never will.
I'm afraid they do. They keep voting for political parties who play fast and loose with the economic fundamentals of the state. Our over reliance on FDI, not to mention our huge debts (all approved by the overwhelming majority of the people) will bite us in the arse.

I bet you're one of them. Hypocrite!
 

Cnoc a Leassa

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The trade offs between negotiation as an EU member and a minor partner in a bi-lateral deal with a powerful counterpart is well captured in the Japanese Proverb - It is better to be the head of chicken than the rear end of an ox.
 

jams odonnell

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The trade offs between negotiation as an EU member and a minor partner in a bi-lateral deal with a powerful counterpart is well captured in the Japanese Proverb - It is better to be the head of chicken than the rear end of an ox.
A post-Brexit Britain is likely to be the most successful trading nation in the world, so that is something we very much want to be part of.

We now face a choice: to remain the wagging tail of a wounded lizard, or become the beating heart of a roaring lion.

I'm backing Britain. It's time to Go Global. Hearts and minds of British steel.
 

Cdebru

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They have the power of the veto.

Also what input do you think 11 MEPs out of 751 have? Virtually none, that's what.

In theory they can "veto" but in practise they don't do it because the consequences are that they may lose access to the part of the single market affected, the third postal services directive and Norway is an example, Norway initially refused to implement it in 2011 but did so in 2013, so it's a veto you can't really use, or you can use but you will lose access so it is not used, 11 is better than 0 and you ignore the other decision making elements of the EU like the Council of Ministers, and the EU commission, EU court of Justice.
 

shiel

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No... and what a stupid question.
Well you were scoffing at the EU institutions.

They are not perfect but they are a ************************ of a lot better than the London based institutions we put up with for eight centuries.
 

londonpride

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You are right Shiel , 800 years of Norman English dominance, But the question i asked was where do you think this so called deity whom is considered the miracle worker and saviour of mankind when his most ardent followers the Irish were .dying in their millions. . No nation ever showered this deity with so much praise and prayer and were totally ignored in their hour of greatest need.
Now whose side do you think this deity supported ?? That is if he/she/it even exists.
 

shiel

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You are right Shiel , 800 years of Norman English dominance, But the question i asked was where do you think this so called deity whom is considered the miracle worker and saviour of mankind when his most ardent followers the Irish were .dying in their millions. . No nation ever showered this deity with so much praise and prayer and were totally ignored in their hour of greatest need.
Now whose side do you think this deity supported ?? That is if he/she/it even exists.
The thread asks the question

Might Ireland leave the Customs Union?

That is a political question.

Questions about the deity are in the theological sphere.
 

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