Minister Flanagans justice dept flushes 3.89 million down the toilet. Just taxpayers money so no heads will roll.

greengoose2

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I'd normally be an "off with his head" kind of guy, especially when lazy, venal and incompetent politicians are involved, but I have to agree that he can't take responsibility for what occurred before he was the relevant Minister, but how about Frances Fitzgerald - was she not the Minister at the time? How come she's not involved in explaining this?

How they react next is how we should judge them. If Flanagan doesn't find out WHO is responsible and name and shame, take appropriate disciplinary action etc., then you have a right to expect him to resign.

Always too much bewildered head scratching when stuff like this emerges, wailing about how it could have been allowed to happen..well, here it is - no follow through on this and it's going to happen again and again.

Not following through is effectively an endorsement of the poor practices and systemic waste in the government departments.
Shall we wait with bated breath for Flanagan to tear himself away from his Egyptian-Irish campaign so as to deal with more important issues? I hold him responsible as minister and would venture that the position he holds is entirely at his own remit. He wasn't forced into it. His boss will not pronounce on this either.
 


Disillusioned democrat

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Shall we wait with bated breath for Flanagan to tear himself away from his Egyptian-Irish campaign so as to deal with more important issues? I hold him responsible as minister and would venture that the position he holds is entirely at his own remit. He wasn't forced into it. His boss will not pronounce on this either.
Certainly if in two weeks there isn't a head on a spike outside the DoJ, but screaming for the wrong head now just makes genuine people looking for proper accountability look like cranks.

If Varadkar doesn do something I think it'll be a hugely wasted opportunity and dilute his message that he's for the "people who pay for everything" when he's effectively endorsing wanton waste.
 

runwiththewind

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The OPW is legendary when it comes to wasting taxpayers money.
In Cork they (CPO) signed a 10 year lease in 2002 for the use of a building in Camden Quay for as the circuit court 10 years for 900 thousand per year even though they knew that the refurbishment of the old courthouse on Washington Street would be completed in 2005.

Yet these clowns can't find the money to cover/encase our high crosses where they stand or refrubish the round towers.
 

greengoose2

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Certainly if in two weeks there isn't a head on a spike outside the DoJ, but screaming for the wrong head now just makes genuine people looking for proper accountability look like cranks.

If Varadkar doesn do something I think it'll be a hugely wasted opportunity and dilute his message that he's for the "people who pay for everything" when he's effectively endorsing wanton waste.
I'm not interested in a head on the spike. I am more for people in authority assuming their responsibilities. Flanagan is the man in charge. If Fitzgerald or indeed any former ministers were not assuming their briefs as would be expected, he should make these issues public! He is, as is the wont of these "ministers", covering up a sad and sorry mess.

Let's not bring Leo into this nor for that matter, the shabby health service over which he presided!
 

kimari

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this goes back to 2009 as a resident of wolfetone street who protested along with local buisnesses and other residents about the illegal conversion of a basement into offices for the dept of probation without any planning permission.its was only pure luck that one of the shop owners found out what they were building for.its was suspossed to be used as a councelling service for probationers sex offenders included .call it nimbyism but we didnt think it was a good idea to open it on a street that had 2 of dublins biggest toy shops in between it
 

Sync

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I'm not interested in a head on the spike. I am more for people in authority assuming their responsibilities.
You don't know what the word "Responsible" means.
 

Sync

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Certainly if in two weeks there isn't a head on a spike outside the DoJ, but screaming for the wrong head now just makes genuine people looking for proper accountability look like cranks.

If Varadkar doesn do something I think it'll be a hugely wasted opportunity and dilute his message that he's for the "people who pay for everything" when he's effectively endorsing wanton waste.
They should know the "Why" by now. The audit draft will have been around for a while, they have to know which dummy gave the go ahead without the proper permissions. And if it's one dummy who made a mistake:Spike.

But if people told the minister at the time: "Well we don't have permission right now, but sher it'll all be right" then that's on the minister. And spike.

This is a good place for Varadkar to order a bespoke review of property spend (Rather than waiting for coverage that comes up as part of more general audit once every 3 or 4 years. I see one poster saying this has been going on for 6 years, which is insane if true.
 

greengoose2

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They should know the "Why" by now. The audit draft will have been around for a while, they have to know which dummy gave the go ahead without the proper permissions. And if it's one dummy who made a mistake:Spike.

But if people told the minister at the time: "Well we don't have permission right now, but sher it'll all be right" then that's on the minister. And spike.

This is a good place for Varadkar to order a bespoke review of property spend (Rather than waiting for coverage that comes up as part of more general audit once every 3 or 4 years. I see one poster saying this has been going on for 6 years, which is insane if true.
Ah yes; the old "review" tactic. It matches the "dust on the shelf" tactic!

It is high time these scoundrels were held to task. That won't be happening as there are always party faithful making excuses. Does that ring a bell?
 

Sync

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Says the lady with reading difficulties!

I looked up the definition and it corresponds precisely to whai I mean! Howzat?
Yes. He had no control over this spend. He has no obligation for the spend's rights and wrongs. He has the potential responsibility for what happens next (I.e: My dept manage leasing correctly in the future and we've sacked the dummy who thought it was ok to go ahead without permission), but even then: Only if individual depts are responsible for sourcing and contracting on buildings. If it's centralised (As it ought to be really), it sits with them, with the Justice dept a victim of their incompetence.
 

Sync

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Ah yes; the old "review" tactic. It matches the "dust on the shelf" tactic!

It is high time these scoundrels were held to task. That won't be happening as there are always party faithful making excuses. Does that ring a bell?
So what would you like Varadkar to do? I think whoever went ahead with this should be sacked and the govt should do an audit, similar to this one, focused on leasing/purchasing of buildings to see if it's happening anywhere else. So it can be fixed.

What do you want?
 

RasherHash

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kimari

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anyway all this occured under fianna fail so why call for fg heads
 

greengoose2

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So what would you like Varadkar to do? I think whoever went ahead with this should be sacked and the govt should do an audit, similar to this one, focused on leasing/purchasing of buildings to see if it's happening anywhere else. So it can be fixed.

What do you want?
You already have my answer/ Read below...

Originally Posted by greengoose2
Ah yes; the old "review" tactic. It matches the "dust on the shelf" tactic!

It is high time these scoundrels were held to task. That won't be happening as there are always party faithful making excuses. Does that ring a bell?
 

RasherHash

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I'd normally be an "off with his head" kind of guy, especially when lazy, venal and incompetent politicians are involved, but I have to agree that he can't take responsibility for what occurred before he was the relevant Minister, but how about Frances Fitzgerald - was she not the Minister at the time? How come she's not involved in explaining this?

How they react next is how we should judge them. If Flanagan doesn't find out WHO is responsible and name and shame, take appropriate disciplinary action etc., then you have a right to expect him to resign.

Always too much bewildered head scratching when stuff like this emerges, wailing about how it could have been allowed to happen..well, here it is - no follow through on this and it's going to happen again and again.

Not following through is effectively an endorsement of the poor practices and systemic waste in the government departments.
The fact they allowed this to go ahead is a pointer to the probability that they or one of their grubby mates were making a tidy profit on it.
 

Watcher2

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It is all apologism! Read what I wrote. Flanagan is implicated in this at 100% as he is the person ultimately in charge. He took on the job and incidentally, is being handsomely paid for it.

But then, isn't hand wringing and blaming others what FG and the PDs are/were good at? Little Brits...
Jesus gg, stop, just stop. This is not flanagans fault. I'm sure there's plenty that is. Whoever signed this lease and the fit out contracts are the ones who are responsible and the ones that need to be brought to task. This issue should be investigated independently and the responsible heads should roll, but not flanagans based on the information in this thread.
 

Watcher2

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I mostly agree with this, but standard practice in government appears to be to move the culprit to another department and reveal the mess some months or years later. Thus the current incumbent is defended by people like yourself. Flanagan should now be sitting in front of a camera explaining how this happened , exactly who was responsible and what is going to be done. If he can't or won't do that then sack him. However we know that won't happen either. So nobody takes any responsibility and Flanagan simply shrugs his shoulders and the costs will be recovered from cuts to services and the little guy who gets up early in the morning. A revolution is well needed.
That's a far more appropriate mechanism to the other "sack him now" screeching.
 

kimari

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Jesus gg, stop, just stop. This is not flanagans fault. I'm sure there's plenty that is. Whoever signed this lease and the fit out contracts are the ones who are responsible and the ones that need to be brought to task. This issue should be investigated independently and the responsible heads should roll, but not flanagans based on the information in this thread.
the minister at the time was dermot ahern
 

Watcher2

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The building in question was owned by liam carrol of zoe developments .I believe it was transfered into his wife s name .
And who was involved in the approval of the contract? Another important matter to ascertain is what was the original intended purpose for the leased premises and at what date was it executed. We also need to know who was involved in the decision for the purpose for the space. Many, many questions and matters to be brought to light. This is a sickening waste of taxpayers money and it needs to be out in the open, all of it.
 


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