Minister John Perry's Massive Mystery Mileage expenses

euroboy

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Jul 8, 2008
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We keep hearing that this new ministerial transport scheme is saving the taxpayer money compared to the previous regime. That may very well be true, we might be saving money but I think there is more scope for ministers to benefit than under the previous scheme. When the merc, petrol and garda wages were paid, the money never touched or rested in the account of ministers. Now where that money is handed to the minister to pay for his/her driver, car expenses and fuel, there is question marks over how much is 'left' of the generous milage allowances after the true costs have been covered.

I get the feeling, that we might be saving money under this new scheme but the ministers are getting more out of it for their pockets.
 


Jackass

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Another FG councillor, Fred Forsey, is in court today accussed of corruption and receiving one €60,000 and two €10,000 bungs from a property developer. It just goes on and on. FG are worse than FF. What a shambles.
 

zakalwe1

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this is a disgrace....what are fg up to?
this was wrong when ff tds were up to this, and even worse when fg (who claimed to know better and hold public office to higher standards) are caught up in this.

Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001

Making gain or causing loss by deception.
6.—(1) A person who dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another, by any deception induces another to do or refrain from doing an act is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.

Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001, Section 6


False accounting.
10.—(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he or she dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another—

(a) destroys, defaces, conceals or falsifies any account or any document made or required for any accounting purpose,

(b) fails to make or complete any account or any such document, or

(c) in furnishing information for any purpose produces or makes use of any account, or any such document, which to his or her knowledge is or may be misleading, false or deceptive in a material particular.

(2) For the purposes of this section a person shall be treated as falsifying an account or other document if he or she—

(a) makes or concurs in making therein an entry which is or may be misleading, false or deceptive in a material particular, or

(b) omits or concurs in omitting a material particular therefrom.


(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or both.

edit....
leaving aside this case, is it possible for a tb to be indicted for an offense under this act if he/she filed false documents, even if the snoozing c&ag and paymaster general do not pursue?
 
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Aindriu

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What's the matter, zakalwe1? Just realised that your lords and masters are just as bad - if not worse - than the other mob? Irish politicians, corrupt since 1922!
 

PeeMac

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And people wonder why a portion of the electorate would use the Fiscal Treaty referendum to cut these pigs off from the trough?
I'd say the first thing the politicians will cut when the money dries up is their perks alright!
 

Lonewolfe

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What's the matter, zakalwe1? Just realised that your lords and masters are just as bad - if not worse - than the other mob? Irish politicians, corrupt since 1922!
Well in fairness, at least he's admitting and condemning it - this in itself is like a breath of fresh ocean air.

Remember the FF days? You'd have some pr!ck on here telling you how hard-working the poor TD is and how he needs this allowance to make the job worth his while.
 

zakalwe1

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What's the matter, zakalwe1? Just realised that your lords and masters are just as bad - if not worse - than the other mob? Irish politicians, corrupt since 1922!
any public servant who pulls a stroke which is intended to take/waste money from the taxpayer in an inappropriate manner, whether to line their own pockets or not, should be barred from public office and forfeit any pension entitlements.

my views on corruption (public sector or not) have not changed and have been consistent throughout my postings here.
 

turdsl

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If I attempted to submit an expense claim at work with no receipts to back it up I would be laughed out of the finance office! This is absolutely disgusting! The arrogance of these fools knows no bounds. They will find themselves going down the FF route come the next election.

The guys who are in charge will be going away their lump sums and gold plated pensions. Does Bertie or Cowen care now, We have the evidence now the new guys are no different.
 

Victor Meldrew

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What's the matter, zakalwe1? Just realised that your lords and masters are just as bad - if not worse - than the other mob? Irish politicians, corrupt since 1922!
The Oireachtas costs €156m a year. This thread is an example of why. Another Animal Farm moment from FG.

This does not go on in any other industry. Huge mileage. Hard to see how one person could rack that up. (Speaking as a fleet manager btw..)

TDs should not, in all practicality, have to log mileage from Mr Smiths to Mr Jones to Mrs whites etc... It is not a matter of public record what is discussed between a TD and his constituents.

However, a simple flat allowance for constituency work would cover this off.

After that, any trip from Sligo to the Dail should be on vouched, audit-able mileage as per the real world.

Perry might as well be promoting a No vote. but remember, the trough will be the last to be cut back...
 

damus

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The Oireachtas costs €156m a year. This thread is an example of why. Another Animal Farm moment from FG.

This does not go on in any other industry. Huge mileage. Hard to see how one person could rack that up. (Speaking as a fleet manager btw..)

TDs should not, in all practicality, have to log mileage from Mr Smiths to Mr Jones to Mrs whites etc... It is not a matter of public record what is discussed between a TD and his constituents.

However, a simple flat allowance for constituency work would cover this off.

After that, any trip from Sligo to the Dail should be on vouched, audit-able mileage as per the real world.

Perry might as well be promoting a No vote. but remember, the trough will be the last to be cut back...
Why can't they just document "from a to b" and document the roads and mileage travelled between the two distances before they can submit a claim for their travel expenses....that is the way things operated when I was working for one particular hospital....and what was discussed in those meetings still remained confidential.
 

Victor Meldrew

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Why can't they just document "from a to b" and document the roads and mileage travelled between the two distances before they can submit a claim for their travel expenses....that is the way things operated when I was working for one particular hospital....and what was discussed in those meetings still remained confidential.
They'd be stating townlands and boreens, it'd be an unauditable mess and an admin hell. Also, there are valid reasons why TD's should be able to be very discrete. This protects this*

There should be a calculation done on constituents and population density and a resulting "allowance" given. This would be redeemable via a Topaz fuel card and would be for a finite annual amount. reg and mileage has to be recorded at time.

once TD X has used up his allowance, it is back to understanding the cost of fuel again...

None of this will save millions, but it will mean that TD's have some link to the value of money that us taxpayers have..


* I'm not a fan of parish pump clientilism, but ceetain elements are required.
 

damus

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They'd be stating townlands and boreens, it'd be an unauditable mess and an admin hell. Also, there are valid reasons why TD's should be able to be very discrete. This protects this*

There should be a calculation done on constituents and population density and a resulting "allowance" given. This would be redeemable via a Topaz fuel card and would be for a finite annual amount. reg and mileage has to be recorded at time.

once TD X has used up his allowance, it is back to understanding the cost of fuel again...

None of this will save millions, but it will mean that TD's have some link to the value of money that us taxpayers have..


* I'm not a fan of parish pump clientilism, but ceetain elements are required.
I disagree, many private sector companies other public sector organisations manage it without it being an administrative nightmare....so it wouldn't be all too difficult to do a calculation for the amount of TD's that are in the Dail. All they'd have to do is to provide details on the street travelled from and to and the distance between point a and point b and pay them as per public service mileage rates. Clientelism would still operate in as a discreet manner as it done previously as they wouldn't be divulging any identifiable personal data or the content of any communications that they had undertaken.
 

wombat

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Ken Foxe reports in Irish Mail in Sunday
It would be interesting if one of the "investigative" reporters asked for a correlation between mileage claimed and his driver's hours worked - I believe junior ministers have to employ drivers - there is a working hours directive and speed limits on our roads - has he complied with them?
 

Jackass

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The Oireachtas costs €156m a year. This thread is an example of why. Another Animal Farm moment from FG.

This does not go on in any other industry. Huge mileage. Hard to see how one person could rack that up. (Speaking as a fleet manager btw..)

TDs should not, in all practicality, have to log mileage from Mr Smiths to Mr Jones to Mrs whites etc... It is not a matter of public record what is discussed between a TD and his constituents.

However, a simple flat allowance for constituency work would cover this off.


After that, any trip from Sligo to the Dail should be on vouched, audit-able mileage as per the real world.

Perry might as well be promoting a No vote. but remember, the trough will be the last to be cut back...
Each TD has a tax free constituency travel allowance of €2747, or €5480 up to €8,782 per year, depending on the size of their constituency, on top of all other allowances whether they use it or not. Going down to the local shop for tipex or travelling within ones own constituency are included in the annual payment.
 
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Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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It would be interesting if one of the "investigative" reporters asked for a correlation between mileage claimed and his driver's hours worked - I believe junior ministers have to employ drivers - there is a working hours directive and speed limits on our roads - has he complied with them?
Also fit the car being used with one of those mileage counters the lorries have to use. Data has to be turned in weekly.
 

Jackass

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We have had Hammer's Deluded FF now we have Hammer's FG= Fiddlers Greed
 

james toney

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4,417Kms in a month? He and many others, are ripping the p!ss out of us and the system.No ifs or buts about it.
Has he previous form for this?
 


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