• Before posting anything about COVID-19, READ THIS FIRST! COVID-19 and Misinformation (UPDATED)
    Misinformation and/or conspiracy theories about this topic, even if intended as humor, will not be tolerated!

Old Mr Grouser

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
6,542
Last edited:
Last edited:
When somebody expounds a theory of "Efficient Nonlinear Hydrodynamic Models for Wave Energy Converter Design" there isn't a single term that is inflated or obfuscatory. Each of the terms in that title are as spare as they can be. Which of them would you replace with jargon-free alternatives?
What's wrong with the two terms presently used?
 

farnaby

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
2,024
Thus the child is not only treated unjustly because the priest fails to be punished but *also* because they are wronged in their capacity as a knower.
Isn't that simply exploitation? The epistemic aspect being one among many aspects where a victim's power is less than that of the perpetrator.
 

Mercurial

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
94,779
I'll have to keep this short and simple, My laptop is has gone wonky.

From looking at the video of her that I posted I'd say that she's New Left.


Consider the examples she quotes of injustices -- the police response to the murder of Stephen Lawrence and the hypothetical situation that she'd be in without the UK's laws which protect workers from arbitrary dismissal.

Taking the second one first the law would certainly protect her, a university-lecturer, from Unfair Dismissal; but only because she's articulate and literate and her professional association would fund first-rate lawyers to fight her case.

None of that would apply to the people in most need of such protection: the unskilled hoi-polloi, If they're in a Trade Union they might have help from a local branch-official in filling in the forms so as to take the matter to an Industrial Tribunal. But nowadays the bulk of low-paid workers aren't unionised.

The other example she quoted was the police response to the murder of Stephen Lawrence.

The police response to this crime was certainly appalling but it was probably just the usual way that the police in that part of South London dealt with the fatal stabbings of young men, black or white,

I'd be more impressed if she'd spoken about the bias of the entire legal and justice industry -- lawyers, courts, the Legal Aid Board, the Citizen Advice Bureaux - against the poor and poorly-educated of all races.
I don’t see any reason to think that your characterisation of the Stephen Lawrence case is correct, and it seems to fly in the face of considerable evidence to the contrary showing a deep racial bias at the heart of the British legal system. And given that racial disparities are invariably linked to wealth disparities I don’t think her examples are as limited as you suggest.
 

Mercurial

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
94,779
Isn't that simply exploitation? The epistemic aspect being one among many aspects where a victim's power is less than that of the perpetrator.
It could be understood as a kind of exploitation in this context, but it’s still useful to be able to identify this particular kind of exploitation so that it can be guarded against.
 

Golah veNekhar

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
3,955
Originally published in 2007, Epistemic Injustice: Power and the Ethics of Knowing by Miranda Fricker has been very influential in contemporary epistemology, and moral and political philosophy. The core thesis of the book is that there are certain forms of injustice that are distinctly epistemic in nature - that is to say there are ways that a person can be wronged in her capacity as a knower. The two main ways this can happen involve "testimonial injustice" where a person's account of their own experiences or knowledge is taken less seriously on the basis of her morally arbitrary features, and "hermeneutical injustice" where a person finds it difficult to make sense of her experiences because of some unjust features of the world (the classic example of this is a woman who suffers from sexual harrassment in the workplace but does not have access to that concept and so finds it more difficult to articulate what is happening to her).

Or, in Fricker's own words: " Testimonial injustice occurs when prejudice causes a hearer to give a deflated level of credibility to a speaker’s word; hermeneutical injustice occurs at a prior stage, when a gap in collective interpretive resources puts someone at an unfair disadvantage when it comes to making sense of their social experiences." (p1)

PDFs of the book can be accessed for free online with a bit of Googling. Since I find myself having to read the book for a piece of research I'm working on, I thought it would be helpful to use this thread as a kind of informal reading group to discuss the book as I work through it myself.
This is straight forward Satanism, and I mean that in deadly seriousness. The people I have had the misfortune to deal with who have really internalized such have been the really utterly savage Ulster Loyalist types, "Community Worker" (paid off paramilitary in other words) "hard mon" with swollen egos and a need to bully others in order to feel important, and along with them Zionist Jews as cruel as they are paranoid who justify to themselves the telologoical suspension of the ethical through their paranoia, oh and who else held these views? Why the Hitlerites- you can see this clearly in the writings of Alfred Rosenberg, the most evil of the Hitlerites, Hilter's "Table Talk" and the book Wyndam Lewis wrote on the Hitler regime after actually visiting it (previously he had written a rather trolling book praising it) as well as "The Revolution of Nihilism" by Hermann Rauschning. What you are really talking about here is replacing completely the concept of Logos, however you choose to understand it (and no I am not particularly taken with E Michael Jones though he has done some good work), with a nihilistic Will to Power.

In both Christianity and Islam there is a strong ethic of accepting the realities that we are faced with, and the objective reality about ourselves and alligning ourselves with reality as something ultimately God given, that it is through objectivity that God speaks to us, and the tempation to hold "things are not as they are because they cannot be" ultimately comes from the Arch-enemy of humanity who as Our Lord said was a murderer from the beginning and who seeks our destruction.

"The telos of revolution binds the forces of chaos, which otherwise would burst all forms and overreach establish boundaries. Even revolution has it's forms and is "formalized", particularly when it shatters the rigid structures of the positivity of the world. The apocalyptic principle combines within it a form-destroying and forming power. Depending on the situation and the task, only one of the two components emerges to sight, but neither can be absent. If the demonic, destructive element is missing, the petrified order, the prevailing positivity of the world cannot be overcome. But if the "New Covenant" fails to shine through in this destructive element the revolution inevitably sinks into empty nothingness (leere Nichts)....If the revolution points to nothing beyond itself, it will end in a movement, dynamic in nature but leading into an abyss. A nihilistic revolution does not pursue any telos, but takes it's aim from the movent itself and, in doing so comes close to Satanic practice."

From pages 10 and 11 of "Occidental Eschatology" by Rabbi Jacob Taubes.
 

Golah veNekhar

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
3,955
In the humanities it's largely unnecessary, except to disguise obvious and banal talking points.

They're looking over their shoulder at science and engineering, where really complex, novel and difficult phenomena actually do require abstruse terminology.

And they want a bit of that action. :cool:
When Europe was Christian the Liberal Arts or what you call the Humanities were always seen as superior even vastly superior to the Servile Arts or "science and engineering" as you call them. Humanities Departments are the Holy of Holies of our Civilization, though now of course they lie in ruins with various types of foxes and jackals prowling about them...Of course our so-called "Right wing" is more busy being triggered by girls in hijabs than being concerned about seeking to remedy this situation.
 

Mercurial

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
94,779
This is straight forward Satanism, and I mean that in deadly seriousness. The people I have had the misfortune to deal with who have really internalized such have been the really utterly savage Ulster Loyalist types, "Community Worker" (paid off paramilitary in other words) "hard mon" with swollen egos and a need to bully others in order to feel important, and along with them Zionist Jews as cruel as they are paranoid who justify to themselves the telologoical suspension of the ethical through their paranoia, oh and who else held these views? Why the Hitlerites- you can see this clearly in the writings of Alfred Rosenberg, the most evil of the Hitlerites, Hilter's "Table Talk" and the book Wyndam Lewis wrote on the Hitler regime after actually visiting it (previously he had written a rather trolling book praising it) as well as "The Revolution of Nihilism" by Hermann Rauschning. What you are really talking about here is replacing completely the concept of Logos, however you choose to understand it (and no I am not particularly taken with E Michael Jones though he has done some good work), with a nihilistic Will to Power.

In both Christianity and Islam there is a strong ethic of accepting the realities that we are faced with, and the objective reality about ourselves and alligning ourselves with reality as something ultimately God given, that it is through objectivity that God speaks to us, and the tempation to hold "things are not as they are because they cannot be" ultimately comes from the Arch-enemy of humanity who as Our Lord said was a murderer from the beginning and who seeks our destruction.

"The telos of revolution binds the forces of chaos, which otherwise would burst all forms and overreach establish boundaries. Even revolution has it's forms and is "formalized", particularly when it shatters the rigid structures of the positivity of the world. The apocalyptic principle combines within it a form-destroying and forming power. Depending on the situation and the task, only one of the two components emerges to sight, but neither can be absent. If the demonic, destructive element is missing, the petrified order, the prevailing positivity of the world cannot be overcome. But if the "New Covenant" fails to shine through in this destructive element the revolution inevitably sinks into empty nothingness (leere Nichts)....If the revolution points to nothing beyond itself, it will end in a movement, dynamic in nature but leading into an abyss. A nihilistic revolution does not pursue any telos, but takes it's aim from the movent itself and, in doing so comes close to Satanic practice."

From pages 10 and 11 of "Occidental Eschatology" by Rabbi Jacob Taubes.
Are you okay?
 

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
6,228
Its found a lot in academics. Try to read a few academic research papers. The language is quite unique.
This reminds me of a friend who was doing a master's degree by research.
He eventually gave it up when his director told him that the language he was using wasn't highfaluting enough.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top Bottom