Molloy's List - how to fix the impunity culture

He3

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
17,077
The root cause of this national catastrophe is the culture of impunity that spread like a contagion since the Haughey era. - Eddie Molloy

***********************

We know what the problems are - it's time for solutions. Molloy lists specific solutions to a root cause of our national crisis - the fact that the bad guys routinely get away with doing bad things. In a word, impunity.

Ireland is comparable to a country that has been involved in a needless war – and lost. The coffers are empty and we are saddled with a debt of €50 billion; a generation of young people has been lost to the nation; people have died and more will die; bulldozers are coming in to clear the rubble of ghost estates; national sovereignty has been compromised; and the population is shocked, disoriented and fearful. Yet the generals who called the shots are still in power.
Laws are supposed to protect us from our worst instincts. Impunity subverts that goal.

Eddie Molloy tackles this head on today in the Irish Times:


For John Gormley, accountability means getting a “grilling”. When Richard Crowley suggested in another radio interview that no one would be held accountable for the staggering waste of public money revealed in the Comptroller and Auditor General’s latest report the Minister firmly rebutted such an ill-informed and cynical suggestion: “You’re wrong there, people are held accountable, officials have to come before the Public Accounts Committee where they get a grilling”. I must say that if I knocked down a little old lady while driving under the influence, I’d be very happy to get away with just a grilling from gardaí.

In the spheres of morality, the legal system, corporate governance and performance management accountability without consequences is meaningless. The Taoiseach clearly appreciates this fundamental principle of any functioning institution since he repeatedly cites the clear-out of irresponsible bankers as evidence of his determination to hold people to account. Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan reassures us that we can expect lots more resignations, adding grimly that not only should such people be fired, they should be investigated by the Garda and jailed if they are found guilty of wrongdoing. They are asserting the principle that accountability must carry consequences.

We all agree, and Brian Dobson asks the question on everyone’s lips: “What are the consequences for calamitous political failure, the failure of Ministers and senior public servants?”
Molloy lists the elements of a cure.

1. Restore the Freedom of Information system to its original intended status.

2. Clean up political funding – make it totally transparent.

3. Introduce an effective whistleblowers charter.

4. Act on the President’s advice and install a proper performance management system in the public service.

5. Change the rules so that firing a public servant when there are justifiable grounds is not a federal case.

6. Bring in laws that can effectively deal with white-collar crime, quickly.

7. Change the law so that senior officials can reveal the advice they gave to ministers (who hide behind the “I acted on the best advice” mantra). Publish the advice, as in Sweden.

8. Above all, effectively restore perjury as a crime that carries a long jail sentence on conviction.

Living in a society where no one ever carries the can - The Irish Times - Sat, Oct 09, 2010

If that cure is to work it needs to be administered. Who will step up to the mark?
 
Last edited:


Twin Towers

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
5,803
90% of all crime is apparently white collar crime and yet less than 2% of all those doing jail time are white collar criminals. To reflect reality truly Blackrock and Wesley etc. class reunions could more appropriately be held in a cage in the Four Courts.
 

rhonda15

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
3,532
Eddie Molloy has a go today in the Irish Times:



Molloy has a cure.

Restore the Freedom of Information system to its original intended status.

Clean up political funding – make it totally transparent.

Introduce an effective whistleblowers charter.

Act on the President’s advice and install a proper performance management system in the public service.

Change the rules so that firing a public servant when there are justifiable grounds is not a federal case.

Bring in laws that can effectively deal with white-collar crime, quickly.

Change the law so that senior officials can reveal the advice they gave to ministers (who hide behind the “I acted on the best advice” mantra). Publish the advice, as in Sweden.

Above all, effectively restore perjury as a crime that carries a long jail sentence on conviction.

Living in a society where no one ever carries the can - The Irish Times - Sat, Oct 09, 2010

If that cure is to work it needs to be administered. Who will step up to the mark?
agree 100%

the system needs a massive overhaul

Public servants have to reminded of the fact that they are there to serve the public and if they are found dealing fraudulently they must go to JAIL.
 
Last edited:

cry freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,338
Would you steal if you knew the chances of being caught were tiny and that you would not suffer even if you were caught? Impunity brings out the worst in us. Laws are supposed to protect us from our worst instincts. Impunity subverts that goal. The kicker is hearing the bad guys turn round when they are challenged and saying you're no different to us. You took part. In Dermot Ahern's words the 'party' is over and now 'we' have to pay.

Impunity is a cultural phenomenon that is killing us. The knowledge that crooked dealing in government, business, finance and public administration will go unpunished has unleashed greed on a scale defying description. It is not confined to Ireland, but we need to look at our own place to see if we can fix it.

Eddie Molloy has a go today in the Irish Times:


Molloy has a cure.

Restore the Freedom of Information system to its original intended status.

Clean up political funding – make it totally transparent.

Introduce an effective whistleblowers charter.

Act on the President’s advice and install a proper performance management system in the public service.

Change the rules so that firing a public servant when there are justifiable grounds is not a federal case.

Bring in laws that can effectively deal with white-collar crime, quickly.

Change the law so that senior officials can reveal the advice they gave to ministers (who hide behind the “I acted on the best advice” mantra). Publish the advice, as in Sweden.

Above all, effectively restore perjury as a crime that carries a long jail sentence on conviction.

Living in a society where no one ever carries the can - The Irish Times - Sat, Oct 09, 2010

If that cure is to work it needs to be administered. Who will step up to the mark?

I have suggested on another thread that the courts should be involved and that a citizen's group should bring these issues before the courts.
My theory was that even if the action failed it would open the administrations actions, [or lack of them], up to forensic examination and that this in "itself alone" would be therapeutic.
My idea did not gain much support, I have to admit, but I think pigs will fly before politicians and civil servant do it of their own volition.
As your signature says in other words "Turkeys do not vote for Christmas".
 

He3

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
17,077
agree 100%

the system needs a massive overhaul

Public servants have to reminded of the fact that they are there to serve the public and if they are found dealing fraudulently they must go to JAIL.
Good honourable dedicated public servants abound. But the bad apples who gets promoted by their political masters for different qualities ruin more than just the barrel.

Molloy's Medicine would work wonders.

The price of not taking the medicine is way beyond us.
 

Ulster-Lad

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
9,989
The Americans have the Government Accountability Office (GAO). They are charged with oversight and act independently of the various branches of government. It is also a non-partisan organisation. Something of this nature should be considered here IMO.
 

controller

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
3,149
When you make up rules that apply to only a certain number of elite people, you will have corruption. Try this crap in the private sector and see how far you go

T.D.s will have to verify that they attend for 80 per cent of sitting days, which works out at 120 days for a TD, each year to qualify for a full allowance.

Try this one with the revenue, and just see will they swallow it
The second allowance will allow TDs to receive an unvouched amount of €15,000 per annum

Commenting, Fine Gael frontbencher Dr James Reilly said he had ......."I will emphasise, however, that just because you're not in here doesn't mean you're not working on behalf of people in your constituency.

Yea.........just like in the real working world James. You'd never go on the gargle and not turn up for work, and with out even a sick note or calling in with a "stomach bug", still claim total attendance.

They need to treat ALL workers exactly the same
 

He3

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
17,077
The Americans have the Government Accountability Office (GAO). They are charged with oversight and act independently of the various branches of government. It is also a non-partisan organisation. Something of this nature should be considered here IMO.
Let's add that to Molloy's List.

1. Restore the Freedom of Information system to its original intended status.

2. Clean up political funding – make it totally transparent.

3. Introduce an effective whistleblowers charter.

4. Act on the President’s advice and install a proper performance management system in the public service.

5. Change the rules so that firing a public servant when there are justifiable grounds is not a federal case.

6. Bring in laws that can effectively deal with white-collar crime, quickly.

7. Change the law so that senior officials can reveal the advice they gave to ministers (who hide behind the “I acted on the best advice” mantra). Publish the advice, as in Sweden.

8. Above all, effectively restore perjury as a crime that carries a long jail sentence on conviction.
 
Last edited:

He3

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
17,077
When you make up rules that apply to only a certain number of elite people, you will have corruption. Try this crap in the private sector and see how far you go

T.D.s will have to verify that they attend for 80 per cent of sitting days, which works out at 120 days for a TD, each year to qualify for a full allowance.

Try this one with the revenue, and just see will they swallow it
The second allowance will allow TDs to receive an unvouched amount of €15,000 per annum

Commenting, Fine Gael frontbencher Dr James Reilly said he had ......."I will emphasise, however, that just because you're not in here doesn't mean you're not working on behalf of people in your constituency.

Yea.........just like in the real working world James. You'd never go on the gargle and not turn up for work, and with out even a sick note or calling in with a "stomach bug", still claim total attendance.

They need to treat ALL workers exactly the same
Ambitous one that...
 

Expatriot

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2009
Messages
4,325
There will be a lot more that "grillings" to worry about for some of these guys. I am all for passing laws to tax pensions at 99% for people that acted the maggot. I am all for a special criminal court setting for dealing with people that are playing the law like a violin. I am hardly alone, democracy is a slow process but it usually gets it way. I want revenge and I want plenty of it.
 

Expatriot

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2009
Messages
4,325
Let's add that to Molloy's List.

1. Restore the Freedom of Information system to its original intended status.

2. Clean up political funding – make it totally transparent.

3. Introduce an effective whistleblowers charter.

4. Act on the President’s advice and install a proper performance management system in the public service.

5. Change the rules so that firing a public servant when there are justifiable grounds is not a federal case.

6. Bring in laws that can effectively deal with white-collar crime, quickly.

7. Change the law so that senior officials can reveal the advice they gave to ministers (who hide behind the “I acted on the best advice” mantra). Publish the advice, as in Sweden.

8. Above all, effectively restore perjury as a crime that carries a long jail sentence on conviction.
9. Do not vote for anyone that known to be rule breaker.

10. Bring in special criminal court type arrangements for dealing with these people.

11. Tax pensions at 99% where wrong doing is severe.
 

Expatriot

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2009
Messages
4,325
Let's add that to Molloy's List.

1. Restore the Freedom of Information system to its original intended status.

2. Clean up political funding – make it totally transparent.

3. Introduce an effective whistleblowers charter.

4. Act on the President’s advice and install a proper performance management system in the public service.

5. Change the rules so that firing a public servant when there are justifiable grounds is not a federal case.

6. Bring in laws that can effectively deal with white-collar crime, quickly.

7. Change the law so that senior officials can reveal the advice they gave to ministers (who hide behind the “I acted on the best advice” mantra). Publish the advice, as in Sweden.

8. Above all, effectively restore perjury as a crime that carries a long jail sentence on conviction.
9. Do not vote for anyone that is known to be rule breaker.

10. Bring in special criminal court type arrangements for dealing with these people.

11. Tax pensions at 99% where wrong doing is severe.

12. Seize family held assets, new laws if required. Make this people afraid of us for a change.
 

Mikecp

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
5
Molloys list

All

I emailed all sitting TD's yesterday with a link to the IT article and the copied the bullet points for their convenience.
I asked that in return for a severe budget the least they could do would be to act on the recomendations in the article.

Only one response so far...Enda Kenny from his iphone....he suggested FG would bring in many of these concepts. In all he sent me 4 emails during the day.
I have to say I was impressed as before I wasn't a fan of his but he took time out while preparing for his address to the presedential dinner, my opinion has risen.

I'll let you know if I get any more...

Mikecp
 

cry freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,338
9. Do not vote for anyone that is known to be rule breaker.

10. Bring in special criminal court type arrangements for dealing with these people.

11. Tax pensions at 99% where wrong doing is severe.

12. Seize family held assets, new laws if required. Make this people afraid of us for a change.
Could I suggest:

13. No bank or financial institution should ever again be too big to fail.

!4. Promotion in any institution, in receipt of taxpayers money, should depend solely on merit and not time served.
 

sic transit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
25,397
Some good ideas to which I would add

Actually enact laws to deal with these issues rather than talk about them.
Address the current expenses setup and make any abuse of it subject to disqualification, a fine and prison.

IQ tests for voters would be nice but unenforceable.:)
 

Hewson

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
8,272
The notion of accountability in Irish politics has become a legendary joke. Thinking back over the years to all of the scandals, from corrupt payments to expenses abuse, I can only remember one politician, Trevor Sargent, who resigned with some honour, and that was for a minor offense. The rest that come to mind – Haughey, Lalor, Burke, O'Donoghue, Callelly, Lowry – brazened out their disgrace before the country. It speaks volumes about the standards in Irish public life that Ray Burke, as rotten as they come, is still paid a pension out of the pockets of the electorate he robbed blind, even though the same people are financially on the ropes.

To a large degree we get the politics and politicians we deserve. The idiots who continually vote along party lines, with little regard for the abilities of the candidate, are our greatest liability and hold back any hope of real reform.

Until we learn the real meaning of responsibility as voters we will continue to elect crooks, self-serving non-entities and a plethora of economically illiterate and morally dysfunctional gobdaws who will go on to mis-manage the island to all our detriment.
 

farnaby

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
1,934
There needs to be a gross negligence clause in the constitution that makes members of the executive - sitting and former - accountable for disastrous policies or negligence in e.g. regulation.

Article 45 already lists directive principles of social policy, many of which have been unequivocally and intentionally broken by FF-led governments. However these principles are only in the care of the Oireachtas and as such are next to useless in practice.

Citizens or independent organisations could bring such cases before the courts who could determine if the clause had been breached same as for any other constituational case (i.e. this would not politicise the judiciary). As in standard commercial contracts, a high degree of negligence would be required to invoke gross negligence/wilful misconduct, which would prevent its use for spurious or (party) politically-motivated ends.

The result could be a sliding scale of punishments, primarily financial e.g. reduction or removal of salaries, pensions or expenses. Hit them where it hurts. Why should incompetent ministers who has jeopardised the viability of the state get a guaranteed full ministerial pension?
 

He3

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
17,077
All

I emailed all sitting TD's yesterday with a link to the IT article and the copied the bullet points for their convenience.
I asked that in return for a severe budget the least they could do would be to act on the recomendations in the article.

Only one response so far...Enda Kenny from his iphone....he suggested FG would bring in many of these concepts. In all he sent me 4 emails during the day.
I have to say I was impressed as before I wasn't a fan of his but he took time out while preparing for his address to the presedential dinner, my opinion has risen.

I'll let you know if I get any more...

Mikecp
Please do.
 

He3

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
17,077
Institutionalised impunity under review now on Vincent Browne
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top