More Arab violence - no red (green) lines.



Gary Spedding

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Rape, in this instance, does not have to be used to justify racism.
So what you are saying here is firstly denying that rape was used to justify racism whilst simultaneously saying you don't actually need an excuse to justify racism? i.e. you think racism is okay regardless of excuse??



For instance, if the girl and her boyfriend were targeted because they are Jews or Israelis then it is fair to say that "An Arab from Nablus was arrested for a rape assault".
None of the reports released so far suggest anything remotely along the lines of what you seem to be implying here which means there is something inherently prejudice in your ideology here. The reports clearly indicate that the guy intended to steal their belongings none of them except the right wing arutz sheva allude to the idea this was a racially motivated crime. Thus your assertion that they may have been targetted for being Jewish or Israeli is ludicrous.

Rapists don't really care what nationality or race their victims are....

They could have just said a man from nablus also the OP deliberately used this thread entitled "more Arab violence" to at the very least leave a general impression towards Arabs.



This Arab from nablus was in Israel illegally.
By that sense of mentality all 500,000 Israeli settlers in occupied territory are also there illegally.

Not only this but his supposed illegal entry surely reveals flaws in Israel's supposed "security measures" indicating that the so called "security measures" are not actually for security.




he wasn't charged with raping a woman from nablus, where he lives or from an area under Palestinian jurisdiction. He came to Israel illegally and allegedly targeted an Israeli couple.
Information suggests he had been in Israel for a while so to claim he specifically came to Israel to target an Israeli couple is misnformation. Also last time I checked Israeli's charged with crimes in Palestinian controlled Area A don't get tried in Palestinian courts further to that if a Palestinian commits a crime toward an Israeli in Palestinian Area A the IDF excercise the so called "justice" not the Palestinian authority - Double standards everywhere!!!!



This is not a case of, an example which you used, - an Israeli man raping an Israeli woman, where the crime is treated as a crime in civil law and the race of the person is never mentioned. This guy came into Israel illegally and allegedly raped a woman. So saying "An Arab from Nablus was arrested for a rape assault" is exactly what it is.
It doesn't matter where the guy came from this news story has still been used to justify racism which is sickening and nothing you have actually said disproves that fact. The fact he is Arabic is thus irelevant unless you are trying to suggest something racist about Arabs....



The Fogel murders were not widely condemned among Palestinian society and by the PA itself.
An opinion poll conducted by the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace and the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research found that 63% of Palestinians surveyed opposed the attack
BBC News - Mahmoud Abbas condemns West Bank settler family murders

RHR Condemns Murders and Prays for Fogel Family | Rabbis for Human Rights - North America

I've been reporting in the Palestinian territories for many years, and the responses I recorded today in Shchem (Nablus) really surprised me. They seem to show a substantial distance between the PA leadership and regular people. The leadership (he cites Abbas and others) are muttering a condemnation of the murder, mostly not in Arabic and not in front of their public, and then they're condemning Israeli settlements. Nothing new here. On the other hand, I went to Shchem today, and was very surprised. People on the street were willing to condemn the murder unequivocally, in Arabic and in Hebrew, with no embarrassment, in front of the camera, and even identify themselves. [He shows some examples]. I've been covering the Palestinian territories for years, but this I've never seen before. In the middle of town, publicly, people had no compunctions openly to condemn the murder of children.

At this point one of the two anchormen asks if this is real, or perhaps a one-off encounter with unusual townsmen. Eldar insists: the interviews I've just shown were representative, and I made lots of them, not only the snippets I just screened. Moreover, I didn't find anyone saying the usual things about how it's settlers and Israelis and IDF violence and all that. The atmosphere in Shchem today is that the murder of the Fogel family was a terrible crime.
-
AIUK : West Bank: Fogel family killings condemned

The families of the killers tried to hide evidence and provide false alibis and obstructed justice.
First where is your evidence for this?

Second that tends to be what families do you know... We have all seen the difficulties parents go through when faced with having to turn their child or relative over to the authorities even if they had done something dispicable. Again allow me to state this doesn't justify covering for people who have committed crimes but it does allow us to understand thus not allow you to continually demonize and dehumanize.

In some sections of palestinian society the killers are seen as heroes.
Again as I have displayed above the majority of Palestinians do not see such killers as heroes thus you are trying to misrepresent facts with your slanted post.



The story put out by Palestinian groups initially was that no Palestinian would carry out such a crime (considering their track record this is hard to take) and that the killer was a foreign worker who had an issue with the Fogel family over money.
Actually the reports put out were relaying a factual point in that the israeli police rounded up all the Thai workers in Itamar...

It was unclear if Israeli investigators were widening their investigation to include the possibility that a foreign worker was involved in the attack, which has been blamed in the Israeli media on Palestinians.
- Maan News Agency: Sources: Thai workers questioned in Itamar

There is no issue to be had here the report dating the 14th of March 2011 gave the information that was available at the time and subsequently posted newer articles as the case evolved.

You have thus attempted to deliberately misrepresent the truth yet again.

Check back on the topic on here at the time and you will even see anti-Israel posters making the same claims.
Given the lack of information at the time there is nothing wrong with them relaying what was told to them especially since the IDF opperated under a gag order.

In Gaza Palestinians handed out sweets on the street to celebrate the murders.
Apparently this only happened in a few isolated areas of Rafah so please don't make out the entire gaza strip was celebrating when it wasn't.

Initially the al-Aqsa martyr's Brigade accepted responsibility for the killings (though later this claim was retracted).
Evidence for this?

So don't say the Fogel murders were widely condemned among Palestinian society and by the PA themselves, becuase that's not really the truth.
Actually it is Really the truth as I have just demonstrated.
 

L'Chaim

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So what you are saying here is firstly denying that rape was used to justify racism whilst simultaneously saying you don't actually need an excuse to justify racism? i.e. you think racism is okay regardless of excuse??

None of the reports released so far suggest anything remotely along the lines of what you seem to be implying here which means there is something inherently prejudice in your ideology here. The reports clearly indicate that the guy intended to steal their belongings none of them except the right wing arutz sheva allude to the idea this was a racially motivated crime. Thus your assertion that they may have been targetted for being Jewish or Israeli is ludicrous.

Rapists don't really care what nationality or race their victims are....

They could have just said a man from nablus also the OP deliberately used this thread entitled "more Arab violence" to at the very least leave a general impression towards Arabs.

By that sense of mentality all 500,000 Israeli settlers in occupied territory are also there illegally.

Not only this but his supposed illegal entry surely reveals flaws in Israel's supposed "security measures" indicating that the so called "security measures" are not actually for security.






Information suggests he had been in Israel for a while so to claim he specifically came to Israel to target an Israeli couple is misnformation. Also last time I checked Israeli's charged with crimes in Palestinian controlled Area A don't get tried in Palestinian courts further to that if a Palestinian commits a crime toward an Israeli in Palestinian Area A the IDF excercise the so called "justice" not the Palestinian authority - Double standards everywhere!!!!





It doesn't matter where the guy came from this news story has still been used to justify racism which is sickening and nothing you have actually said disproves that fact. The fact he is Arabic is thus irelevant unless you are trying to suggest something racist about Arabs....







BBC News - Mahmoud Abbas condemns West Bank settler family murders

RHR Condemns Murders and Prays for Fogel Family | Rabbis for Human Rights - North America

-

AIUK : West Bank: Fogel family killings condemned



First where is your evidence for this?

Second that tends to be what families do you know... We have all seen the difficulties parents go through when faced with having to turn their child or relative over to the authorities even if they had done something dispicable. Again allow me to state this doesn't justify covering for people who have committed crimes but it does allow us to understand thus not allow you to continually demonize and dehumanize.



Again as I have displayed above the majority of Palestinians do not see such killers as heroes thus you are trying to misrepresent facts with your slanted post.





Actually the reports put out were relaying a factual point in that the israeli police rounded up all the Thai workers in Itamar...

- Maan News Agency: Sources: Thai workers questioned in Itamar

There is no issue to be had here the report dating the 14th of March 2011 gave the information that was available at the time and subsequently posted newer articles as the case evolved.

You have thus attempted to deliberately misrepresent the truth yet again.



Given the lack of information at the time there is nothing wrong with them relaying what was told to them especially since the IDF opperated under a gag order.



Apparently this only happened in a few isolated areas of Rafah so please don't make out the entire gaza strip was celebrating when it wasn't.



Evidence for this?



Actually it is Really the truth as I have just demonstrated.
Phew, your posts are getting longer and longer all the time. Is this just you trying to parade yourself as knowledgeable, or just an attempt by you to try and throw everything bar the kitchen sink into a debate?

The headline used "An Arab from Nablus was arrested for a rape assault" is exactly what it is. How many times in the past have we had headlines saying things like "Catholic youths/protestant gangs/IRA/UVF gangs/ Israeli youths/Arab gangs etc. etc. As long as it's the truth then you should have no problem. First the arrested man is an arab from nablus. second, he was arrested for a rape assault. He was in Israel illegally and he targeted an Israeli couple.

Now regarding the Fogel murders, I can't believe you are arguing that it is understandable for a family to hide evidence of such killings, try to pervert the course of justice and give false alibis to try and protect such killers. Even after they were found guilty family members went on palestinian TV and radio saying they felt the killers were heroes and legends. All of that is just unacceptable and their is no excuse for it. I've just come from two other threads where, 1) you were outraged that an IDF soldier who hit a pro-palestinian protester was, you claimed promoted in the army (he wasn't btw). 2) You are upset over a headline saying what background an alleged rapist came from (he's Arab). You are arguing how shocking this is and how it's racist. And here, in this thread, you are trying to argue and rationalise and explain "the difficulties parents go through (in this case palestinian parents) when faced with having to turn their child or relative over to the authorities even if they had done something despicable"........like murdering a mother, father, three children (including babies). Where's your sense of perspective and balance? You really don't do your cause any favours when you do things like this. You just come across as a biased shrill who tries to beat people into agreeing you are right and they are wrong. In short, Israeli actions on a par with war crimes, Palestinian actions to be excused and rationalised and deminished. The way you think and rationalise things is quite shocking.
 
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Gary Spedding

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Phew, your posts are getting longer and longer all the time. Is this just you trying to parade yourself as knowledgeable, or just an attempt by you to try and throw everything bar the kitchen sink into a debate?
Sigh... Ad hominem attacks and attacks on my character do you no favours.

The headline used "An Arab from Nablus was arrested for a rape assault" is exactly what it is.
You aren't a silly man so please stop pretending to be - I have clearly displayed how the use of such langage attempts to justify racism - You are yet to come back at me on that point and on several others I might add.

How many times in the past have we had headlines saying things like "Catholic youths/protestant gangs/IRA/UVF gangs/ Israeli youths/Arab gangs etc. etc. As long as it's the truth then you should have no problem. First the arrested man is an arab from nablus. second, he was arrested for a rape assault. He was in Israel illegally and he targeted an Israeli couple.
First you have not provided a single bit of evidence supporting your claim that this guy specifically targetted Israeli's because they were Israeli.

Second you create a false dichotomy in your comparatives here Protestant/Catholic is known here to be an oppostive, Israeli/Arab however is not an opposite as you can be an Arab and Israeli (just not with equal rights as jewish israeli's) thus you are making this racial and justifying racism. The correct terminology to use here would be that the guy was/is a Palestinian i.e. Israel/Palestinian rather than Israeli/Arab.

See how you try to mislead people?

Now regarding the Fogel murders, I can't believe you are arguing that it is understandable for a family to hide evidence of such killings, try to pervert the course of justice and give false alibis to try and protect such killers.
I actually made the point broad as in not specific to the Fogel case but rather described what any typical family does to protect one of their own regardless of what the person has done.

Even after they were found guilty family members went on palestinian TV and radio saying they felt the killers were heroes and legends.
A single member of the family did that in january 2012 and has been rightly condemned for such. I notice you ignored every single bit of evidence I brought forward proving you wrong on your points.

All of that is just unacceptable and their is no excuse for it. I've just come from another thread where you were outraged that an IDF soldier who hit a protester was, you claimed promoted in the army (he wasn't btw).
When you get demoted and then promoted to a new position it is in essence a promotion.

And here you are trying to argue and rationalise and explain "the difficulties parents go through (in this case palestinian parents) when faced with having to turn their child or relative over to the authorities even if they had done something despicable"........like murdering a mother, father, three children (including babies).
Saying it is understandable for a family to react that way isn't the same as justifying it or saying they were right in their actions so please stop twisting and squirming.

Where's your sense of perspective and balance? You really don't do your cause any favours when you do things like this. You just come across as a biased shrill who tries to beat people into agreeing you are right and they are wrong. The way you think and rationalise things is quite shocking.
My perspective is much better and more well informed than yours.

Balance? You mean like your balance i.e. pro-israeli...

Biased? You have to be joking right? I'm on the side of human rights for all and you are merely seeking to distract with lengthy debates that distract from the real points of discussion.
 

TheMushyStuff

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L'Chaim can't stand anyone criticizing Israel even if it is many Israeli themselves.
 

L'Chaim

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Sigh... Ad hominem attacks and attacks on my character do you no favours.



You aren't a silly man so please stop pretending to be - I have clearly displayed how the use of such langage attempts to justify racism - You are yet to come back at me on that point and on several others I might add.



First you have not provided a single bit of evidence supporting your claim that this guy specifically targetted Israeli's because they were Israeli.

Second you create a false dichotomy in your comparatives here Protestant/Catholic is known here to be an oppostive, Israeli/Arab however is not an opposite as you can be an Arab and Israeli (just not with equal rights as jewish israeli's) thus you are making this racial and justifying racism. The correct terminology to use here would be that the guy was/is a Palestinian i.e. Israel/Palestinian rather than Israeli/Arab.

See how you try to mislead people?



I actually made the point broad as in not specific to the Fogel case but rather described what any typical family does to protect one of their own regardless of what the person has done.



A single member of the family did that in january 2012 and has been rightly condemned for such. I notice you ignored every single bit of evidence I brought forward proving you wrong on your points.



When you get demoted and then promoted to a new position it is in essence a promotion.



Saying it is understandable for a family to react that way isn't the same as justifying it or saying they were right in their actions so please stop twisting and squirming.



My perspective is much better and more well informed than yours.

Balance? You mean like your balance i.e. pro-israeli...

Biased? You have to be joking right? I'm on the side of human rights for all and you are merely seeking to distract with lengthy debates that distract from the real points of discussion.
it's not attempting to justify racism. It's just telling it as it is i.e. an arab from nablus (who was in Israel illegally btw) was arrested on a rape charge. There's a much better case for accusations of racism and bigorty in another thread running on here that says "Jewish terrorist settlers open fire on palestinians".

He allegedly targeted a couple in Israel, where he was illegally. He admitted he did in fact rob them, but he is denying the rape charge, though the prosecution claim they have DNA evidence. He has a history of crime and it is clear he came to Israel to carry out crime......and oddly enough the victims of this alleged crime are Israelis. So who was he targeting?

Now regarding the soldier and the danish activist, what do you mean by saying "When you get demoted and then promoted to a new position it is in essence a promotion." He wasn't demoted and then promoted. He was moved from his position to another one, where he won't be dealing with protesters and he has lost his promotion prospects for two years. How do you possibly twist that in your head to say he is promoted in the IDF? Seriously!

"Saying it is understandable for a family to react that way isn't the same as justifying it or saying they were right in their actions so please stop twisting and squirming." You still don't get it do you? You are screaming blue murder about an Israeli soldier, who hit a protester, being promoted (he wasn't) and you scream blue murder about a report giving the background of an arab who was illegally in Israel, and then you try to play down and rationalise the family of killers (who stabbed to death a mother, father, three children, two of whom were babies) perverting the course of justice, hiding murder weapons, going on TV sand radio saying their killer relatives were heroes and legends, and you say it's understandable for a family to react that way. I've news for you......it is not understandable.....and it's not acceptable. Just as it's not understandable how you can take incidents that are so minor in comparison to murdering a family and scream blue murder about them and try to be understanding about the disgusting behaviour of the families of killers after the fact. Your perspective is so out of sync with what is acceptable. you really do your cause no favours. But you do the pro-Israeli cause a favour, because people can see just how poisoned your logic is, in relation to Israel

And then you say you "are on the side of human rights". You are not. You think you are, but all you do is cherry-pick your conscience. That's not being on the side of human rights. No more than when Saudi arabia was elected to the UN's new Women's comittee is a sign of its support of women's rights
 
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L'Chaim

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You can president of whatever you like, it doesn't change the fact that israel pre-1948 did not exist.
Eh no, you are totally wrong. Do you not look at events in the world? For instance the Balfour declaration and the League of nations legal documents gave Jews the right to create their national home there. But look at the wording. The documents recognised the "historic connection of the Jewish people with palestine" and gives this as "the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country".

Now you will note that they talk about "reconstituting" and not constituting. "reconstituting" meaning constituting for a second time their national home there. That word in among the whole legal document acknoweldges the four millennia unbroken connection of the Jews to that land. God is in the detail don't ya know
 

gerhard dengler

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Eh no, you are totally wrong. Do you not look at events in the world? For instance the Balfour declaration and the League of nations legal documents gave Jews the right to create their national home there. But look at the wording. The documents recognised the "historic connection of the Jewish people with palestine" and gives this as "the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country".

Now you will note that they talk about "reconstituting" and not constituting. "reconstituting" meaning constituting for a second time their national home there. That word in among the whole legal document acknoweldges the four millennia unbroken connection of the Jews to that land. God is in the detail don't ya know
israel didn't exist pre-1948.
You've acknowledged this fact on this thread and on other threads.
 

Gary Spedding

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it's not attempting to justify racism. It's just telling it as it is i.e. an arab from nablus (who was in Israel illegally btw) was arrested on a rape charge. There's a much better case for accusations of racism and bigorty in another thread running on here that says "Jewish terrorist settlers open fire on palestinians".
All this mudslinging is getting you nowhere.

You are justifying racism and I have adequetely proved how you are doing such... you find excuse after excuse to run away and hide from the reality whilst somehow twisting things to accuse others of the very thing you are doing which is complete insanity.

You keep pointing to the idea the guy was inside Israel illegally yet you haven't the slightest factual basis for that claim nor have you provided evidence supporting such, you also pay little regard to the fact that with Israel there is no such thing as a legal entry from what Israel regards as illegal infiltrators as they usually only give permits that last 24 hours and usually only allowing travel to and from Jerusalem so in effect everything is illegal according to Israel and your pro-israeli mindset.

You know I am friends with scores of people who have never seen the beach that is only 22km away from their house because Israel deems it illegal for them to go there..... strange that isn't it

So thank you for highlighting yet another injustice that Israel imposes on the Palestinian people.

This is the thing also with you - You mention the other thread on here claiming there is a much better case for calling it racism...

THEY ARE THE SAME THING and yet you only condemn one of the threads as racist whilst I in stark comparison condemn both without making up sill excuses.

I am well aware that the guy who is accused of these crimes is Arabic, I am well aware he is from Nablus so why is it that emphasis is being placed on making sure people know he is Arabic as if to insinuate something about all Arabs?

Bigotry and hypocrissy is what you have just displayed here.


He has a history of crime and it is clear he came to Israel to carry out crime......and oddly enough the victims of this alleged crime are Israelis. So who was he targeting?
How on earth did you ascertain any of the above? did he or someone directly involved in the case tell you they discovered he has a history of crime? or is it just something you read in Arutz Sheva? Did you ask him directly why he entered Israel proper?

Would you be making the same fuss if he had robbed Palestinian citizens of Israel?

He could have in all seriousness just as easily walked up to a none - jewish couple and robbed them would you be claiming all kinds of wild things about his intentions if so?

Now regarding the soldier and the danish activist, what do you mean by saying "When you get demoted and then promoted to a new position it is in essence a promotion." He wasn't demoted and then promoted. He was moved from his position to another one, where he won't be dealing with protesters and he has lost his promotion prospects for two years. How do you possibly twist that in your head to say he is promoted in the IDF? Seriously!
The news reports and documents released in Hebrew suggested that he had been demoted from his rank and not merely "reassigned" somewhere I shall ask for my contacts in the IDF to clarify this point directly to me before making further comment.

All this rhetoric and you still ignore the fundamental problem in that if this was any other military in the world the guy would have been expelled immediately following an investigation. Yet here we see him being rewarded with a new assignment rather than being punished for his brutal actions. See how you try to shift the discussion away from the original/main points?

"Saying it is understandable for a family to react that way isn't the same as justifying it or saying they were right in their actions so please stop twisting and squirming." You still don't get it do you? You are screaming blue murder about an Israeli soldier, who hit a protester, being promoted (he wasn't) and you scream blue murder about a report giving the background of an arab who was illegally in Israel, and then you try to play down and rationalise the family of killers (who stabbed to death a mother, father, three children, two of whom were babies) perverting the course of justice, hiding murder weapons, going on TV sand radio saying their killer relatives were heroes and legends, and you say it's understandable for a family to react that way.
I'm not screaming blue anything just pointing out the systematic abuse towards the Palestinians. I have in no way played down the brutal and disgusting murders of the fogel family - You really have no idea do you? Motti Fogel is a contact of mine I know the trauma that family is going through, I also recieved the email, police report and images of the fogel family murder via a contact in the Israeli prison system Yaron Meir I saw the images of the murder before they were released to the public and I saw what those brutal disgusting murderers did to that family.

You however seem more interested in using this as a method of attacking me whilst also making comparisons with crimes committed against Palestinians to deliberately play down those crimes as some how acceptable or sanitised because they aren't as bad as what happened to the Fogels which to me indicates how sick you actually are....

You instead of condemning all these crimes only focus on the one tragedy....

I wonder what you would say If I agreed to play your silly little political game and bring up Baruch Goldstein or various other examples I can name off the top of my head?

I've news for you......it is not understandable.....and it's not acceptable. Just as it's not understandable how you can take incidents that are so minor in comparison to murdering a family and scream blue murder about them and try to be understanding about the disgusting behaviour of the families of killers after the fact.
First of all understanding different perspectives is not an acceptance of those perspectives... I know of a gentleman who went out of his way to understand suicide bombers after his daughter was brutally killed by one it doesn't mean he accepts suicide bombings as some how legitimate....

Also you are sitting there blatantly lieing about me now.. I in no way made a comparison between what happened to the Fogel family and these other crimes... YOU DID THAT right here for everyone to see which again I regard as quite sick.

On the topic of understanding if your child was to do something seriously wrong you would still regardless of what they had done regard them as your child most likely... the same as my mother would staunchly defend me even if I were to do something wrong it is something that whilst not accepting as neccesarily correct, we can still understand...

Just because you have a militant and radical ideology doesn't mean the rest of us have to have similar views, morals (lack there of) or principles...

Your perspective is so out of sync with what is acceptable. you really do your cause no favours. But you do the pro-Israeli cause a favour, because people can see just how poisoned your logic is, in relation to Israel
Actually it is you who do the pro-israel cause no favours by defending or trying to defend the indefensible that is a truly poisoned logic.

And then you say you "are on the side of human rights". You are not. You think you are, but all you do is cherry-pick your conscience. That's not being on the side of human rights. No more than when Saudi arabia was elected to the UN's new Women's comittee is a sign of its support of women's rights
I am unlike any pro-palestinian you have encountered before dude. My history, record and activities/actions to date prove I am verily on the side of human rights and equality for all I do not cherry pick.

Saudi Arabia point is irelevant but I will take it - I am a signatory and supporter of the womens rights movements in Saudi Arabia just as I am also the man who made my university take a stance condemning Iran of its human rights abuses...

I took active part in No more Traffik week and I am also a key stake holder in LGBT rights throughout the world.

keep trying all you are doing is giving me a headache having to reply to your pointless accusations and defamations.
 

yanshuf

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A word on a piece of stone petunia
Of cousre. And there are clay steles and papyrus documents and even a stele from as early as the 13 century BC, where the word Israel is mentioned.

Glad you're interested, though!
 

Riadach

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Of cousre. And there are clay steles and papyrus documents and even a stele from as early as the 13 century BC, where the word Israel is mentioned.

Glad you're interested, though!
As Ireland or words for Ireland are mentioned in early Greek and Roman accounts, but it doesn't refer to anything like a unified or independent state or nation. One thing it does do, is correspond to the geographical entity we know as Ireland, can you say that about Israel? Most historins seem to agree that it merely refers to a tribe or a population group, which is not the same as a state.
 

gerhard dengler

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Of cousre. And there are clay steles and papyrus documents and even a stele from as early as the 13 century BC, where the word Israel is mentioned.

Glad you're interested, though!
I'm not denying that israel was mentioned. I've acknowledged that the word israel has been mentioned throughout a book of fiction.

It's fiction that israel existed pre 1948.
 

eyelight

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???

Don't you have something better to do than to check my spellings?
I'm not checking your spellings, merely your denials of them.
If you can't be trusted to tell the truth about spelling then you can't be trusted to tell the truth about ethnic cleansing.

And yes, the sun is finally shining, so I have better things to go do.
 
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yanshuf

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As Ireland or words for Ireland are mentioned in early Greek and Roman accounts, but it doesn't refer to anything like a unified or independent state or nation. One thing it does do, is correspond to the geographical entity we know as Ireland, can you say that about Israel? Most historins seem to agree that it merely refers to a tribe or a population group, which is not the same as a state.
Have you even read the Yesha Stele?
 

Riadach

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Desperate Dan

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An Israeli couple went through an assault in which the girl was raped, and the guy was made watch.

An Aarab from Nablus was arrested for a rape assault

Arab gang arrested today for planning to kidnap Israelis after they already attacked a settler car with a woman and her daughter inside:

Arab gang arrested

Their violence - a years after the slaughter of the Fogel family - knows no bounds.

Their pogroms continue, and as a matter of fact, they never ceased from trying to kill Jews.

The premeditated victimisation of the so called "Palestinian" is one big plan to eradicate Israel and thus get rid of the leftists' well poiseners.
You have a neck like a jockeys bollacks, to be mentioning violence, you hypocrite.
 

yanshuf

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I'm not denying that israel was mentioned. I've acknowledged that the word israel has been mentioned throughout a book of fiction.

It's fiction that israel existed pre 1948.

The Mesha Stele is not a book of fiction.


Riadach:
If you mean the Meshe stele, then you'll find it is the 9th century, which gives no indication as to what is meant by Israel, but certainly didn't refer to anything remotely resembling a united monarchy which covered the entirety of modern day Israel.
It gives lots of indications. You should read it.
 

Riadach

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The Mesha Stele is not a book of fiction.


Riadach:


It gives lots of indications. You should read it.
I have, it gives few indications about the nature of Israel. But even the bible doesn't claim Omri was king of a united monarchy, the Israel in question, at maximum is a northern tribal confederation, at minimum an expanded dynasty or tribe in itself. Hardly historic justification for nationahood (if of course historic justification for nationhood is needed.)
 
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L'Chaim

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May 2, 2007
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All this mudslinging is getting you nowhere.

You are justifying racism and I have adequetely proved how you are doing such... you find excuse after excuse to run away and hide from the reality whilst somehow twisting things to accuse others of the very thing you are doing which is complete insanity.

You keep pointing to the idea the guy was inside Israel illegally yet you haven't the slightest factual basis for that claim nor have you provided evidence supporting such, you also pay little regard to the fact that with Israel there is no such thing as a legal entry from what Israel regards as illegal infiltrators as they usually only give permits that last 24 hours and usually only allowing travel to and from Jerusalem so in effect everything is illegal according to Israel and your pro-israeli mindset.

You know I am friends with scores of people who have never seen the beach that is only 22km away from their house because Israel deems it illegal for them to go there..... strange that isn't it

So thank you for highlighting yet another injustice that Israel imposes on the Palestinian people.

This is the thing also with you - You mention the other thread on here claiming there is a much better case for calling it racism...

THEY ARE THE SAME THING and yet you only condemn one of the threads as racist whilst I in stark comparison condemn both without making up sill excuses.

I am well aware that the guy who is accused of these crimes is Arabic, I am well aware he is from Nablus so why is it that emphasis is being placed on making sure people know he is Arabic as if to insinuate something about all Arabs?

Bigotry and hypocrissy is what you have just displayed here.




How on earth did you ascertain any of the above? did he or someone directly involved in the case tell you they discovered he has a history of crime? or is it just something you read in Arutz Sheva? Did you ask him directly why he entered Israel proper?

Would you be making the same fuss if he had robbed Palestinian citizens of Israel?

He could have in all seriousness just as easily walked up to a none - jewish couple and robbed them would you be claiming all kinds of wild things about his intentions if so?



The news reports and documents released in Hebrew suggested that he had been demoted from his rank and not merely "reassigned" somewhere I shall ask for my contacts in the IDF to clarify this point directly to me before making further comment.

All this rhetoric and you still ignore the fundamental problem in that if this was any other military in the world the guy would have been expelled immediately following an investigation. Yet here we see him being rewarded with a new assignment rather than being punished for his brutal actions. See how you try to shift the discussion away from the original/main points?



I'm not screaming blue anything just pointing out the systematic abuse towards the Palestinians. I have in no way played down the brutal and disgusting murders of the fogel family - You really have no idea do you? Motti Fogel is a contact of mine I know the trauma that family is going through, I also recieved the email, police report and images of the fogel family murder via a contact in the Israeli prison system Yaron Meir I saw the images of the murder before they were released to the public and I saw what those brutal disgusting murderers did to that family.

You however seem more interested in using this as a method of attacking me whilst also making comparisons with crimes committed against Palestinians to deliberately play down those crimes as some how acceptable or sanitised because they aren't as bad as what happened to the Fogels which to me indicates how sick you actually are....

You instead of condemning all these crimes only focus on the one tragedy....

I wonder what you would say If I agreed to play your silly little political game and bring up Baruch Goldstein or various other examples I can name off the top of my head?



First of all understanding different perspectives is not an acceptance of those perspectives... I know of a gentleman who went out of his way to understand suicide bombers after his daughter was brutally killed by one it doesn't mean he accepts suicide bombings as some how legitimate....

Also you are sitting there blatantly lieing about me now.. I in no way made a comparison between what happened to the Fogel family and these other crimes... YOU DID THAT right here for everyone to see which again I regard as quite sick.

On the topic of understanding if your child was to do something seriously wrong you would still regardless of what they had done regard them as your child most likely... the same as my mother would staunchly defend me even if I were to do something wrong it is something that whilst not accepting as neccesarily correct, we can still understand...

Just because you have a militant and radical ideology doesn't mean the rest of us have to have similar views, morals (lack there of) or principles...



Actually it is you who do the pro-israel cause no favours by defending or trying to defend the indefensible that is a truly poisoned logic.



I am unlike any pro-palestinian you have encountered before dude. My history, record and activities/actions to date prove I am verily on the side of human rights and equality for all I do not cherry pick.

Saudi Arabia point is irelevant but I will take it - I am a signatory and supporter of the womens rights movements in Saudi Arabia just as I am also the man who made my university take a stance condemning Iran of its human rights abuses...

I took active part in No more Traffik week and I am also a key stake holder in LGBT rights throughout the world.

keep trying all you are doing is giving me a headache having to reply to your pointless accusations and defamations.
You are only trowing out the racist accusation against Yanshuf and the headline he posted in an attempt to silence him. But what you are saying is racist is not racist by any atretch of the imagination. Saying "An Arab from Nablus was arrested for a rape assault" is exactly what it is. An Arab from Nablus (who entered Israel illegally) was charged with a rape offence. If someone said Arabs from nablus are rapists then you might have a case, but that's not what was said. What was said is the story.....An Arab from nablus (who entered Israel illegally) was arrested for a rape crime. This is how stories are reported all the time. Irish Indo - Mayo farmer charged with the manslaughter of a Traveller. RTE News - Mayo Farmer charged with murder. It is not racist to say where the person who is charged is from? It is not racist to give the background of the victim? Here's another headline "Young Woman killed in hit and run accident by a drunk French tourist; driver flees back to France". It's not racist, it's what happened. What you are doing, by shouting racism when there is none, is to diminish real racism.

Now you say you are "well aware that the guy who is accused of these crimes is Arabic, I am well aware he is from Nablus so why is it that emphasis is being placed on making sure people know he is Arabic as if to insinuate something about all Arabs?" You know, but you object to other people knowing? How did you find out? Obviously someone reported it to you or you read it somewhere. So what is your problem with it being reported here? Your only issue with it is that you are trying to use it as a form of silencing someone else. There was nothing in the headline "Arab man from nablus was arrested for rape assault" that is insinuating something about all Arabs". If you think it is then you really need to look to yourself in relation to racism. The fact that you could even make such a comment says more about you than it does about anyone else

"You keep pointing to the idea the guy was inside Israel illegally yet you haven't the slightest factual basis for that claim nor have you provided evidence supporting such". well yes I have evidence. Just peruse the newspapers reporting on it and it's all there. here's one of them
TA rape case: Suspect denies assaulting couple - Israel News, Ynetnews
If you are going to argue a point, at least try to keep up with events and don't just assume there is no evidence because the alleged attacker is palestinian. Because that would be racism in full flow wouldn't it.

You are not "just pointing out systamitic abuses towards the palestinians", you are taking a side and you are engaging in a propaganda exercise, with your one-sided condemnation of Israel. Your propaganda exercise is highlighted when you take incidences and blow them out of proportion, when you can use those incidences to demonise Israel. And at the same time you can take much more serious events, like the families of the Fogel killers supporting their killer relatives and going on TV and radio to say the killers are heroes and legends, and who, immediately after the crime, hid the weapons used, gave false alibis and perverted the course of justice, and you try to diminish all that by saying it's understandable that families would do that. If it was an Israeli family you would be apoplectic with rage and you would be screaming blue murder, just like you are over the molehills you make mountains out of. Your so transparent.

So you are a "stakeholder in LGBT rights around the world"? In all your posts here have you posted anything about the rights of LGBT people in Gaza or the areas under PA authority in the West Bank? Could you link me to any of those posts. And if you haven't posted, maybe you could link me to blogs you wrote or newsletters you had published in relation to same. You must be delighted with Israel's record of LGBT rights?
 
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