More "Chandalier Socialists" than Socialist Party: Cllrs in waste of public money

D

Duth Ealla

Fianna Fai and Fine Gael councilors wreck the country through corrupt land rezoning that will cost the country tens of billions.

Fingal county council pay 10000 euro for photographs of each and every councillor, including three socialist councillers which cost roughly 1600 euro.

If that's all that Tony O Reillys bottom feeding Independent can come up with against these three then they'll get my vote.
own arris,

they shouldnt get your vote. They should not get anyone's vote. They are a woeful attempt at opposition.

All they do is take the most radical and hungry for change and send them down a dead end track of never delivering. A bottomless pit absorbing the desire for change and churning out slogans and leaflets.

If the SP didnt exist the establishment would have to invent them.
 


Republican-Socialist

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Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
987
Who is calling for everyone to be in the FG/FF/Labour which are as good as one party when it comes to vision.

SP do sadly live in a dream world. A dream world they have not made real in any measurable way in the real world.

I like many others, actually a very large % if you consider the TASC attitudes survey, share most of the aims of their dream.

Where I disagree with them is their never ending ability to sabotage and weaken their own project and the project of building a workable, sustainable, influential Irish left which can change Irish society. Instead they continue to operate as a party of county councillors with no policies on anything - A4 descriptions and generalisations dont and should not count.

Do you think the Sociliast Party will come up with any plans on how to help the country out of the FF and FG/Labour mess (all 3 have ruled here all have a hand in the sorry state we call the "republic").
No they wont because they dont do that type of thing. Their solution never changes. Nothing ever changes but they keep on keeping on at 2%.

But whats the worst about the SP is that they cant even evaluate the woeful failure there project is and do something about it. They just put the head down and keep on failing.

You describe yourself as a republican socialist. You of all people should be most angry at the SP. Anyone who calls themselves a socialist should be furious at the SP and their insistence on failing to deliver.

Yet If I say this you think I must be a FF. Its not me who should be pointing this out but members of the socilaist party themselves and everyone else who wants to see the left progress in Ireland.

Yet they cant. The further left is monolithic and has all the manoueuvreability of an oil tanker on issues.
I don't think you're a Fianna Failer after that post. In fairness most FFer's would just give the usual clichés about socialism, have a giggle, and tell us all that FF live in the 'real world' and make the tough decisions.

I have many problems with the SP, as the first part of my username would imply I'm sure. But this thread is a bit ridiculous and my problems with the SP would be political ones and not criticisms based on clichés. Your post was a mature and valid one on their failures.

The SP and SWP/Pb4P seriously need to get their act together. Their whole holier than thou attitude does nothing but damage and impede the Irish left. Both of their ideologies are pretty much identical, they may argue that FF and FG are the same, but the reality s here is probably more differences between those two parties than the trots in Ireland.

Joe Higgins is part of the problem, as is the leadership of SWP. They are just far too dogmatic and would fall out over some march in the middle east or some finer point of soviet history. It is just totally irrelevant to the exigencies of working class people in Ireland today. Left unity in this country is being held back by petty dogma and ego's. They are supposed to be the parties of the worker but it does seem being a big fish in their little pond is more important, while each blaming the other for the failings.

What is badly needed during this crisis is an articulate and tangible message from the left, outlining their alternative. I'm a socialist and am in socialist circles and I have absolutely no idea what the SP and SWP are saying is their economic alternative. As you say it's just the same old tired stuff. I would have hoped the left could make big strides during this crisis and have a good showing in the next GE, but looks like realistically being just 1 seat, maybe two. That tells its own story, during an economic crisis in capitalism the left will have the same amount of seats as it did during the boom. Great.
 
D

Duth Ealla

I don't think you're a Fianna Failer after that post. In fairness most FFer's would just give the usual clichés about socialism, have a giggle, and tell us all that FF live in the 'real world' and make the tough decisions.

I have many problems with the SP, as the first part of my username would imply I'm sure. But this thread is a bit ridiculous and my problems with the SP would be political ones and not criticisms based on clichés. Your post was a mature and valid one on their failures.

The SP and SWP/Pb4P seriously need to get their act together. Their whole holier than thou attitude does nothing but damage and impede the Irish left. Both of their ideologies are pretty much identical, they may argue that FF and FG are the same, but the reality s here is probably more differences between those two parties than the trots in Ireland.

Joe Higgins is part of the problem, as is the leadership of SWP. They are just far too dogmatic and would fall out over some march in the middle east or some finer point of soviet history. It is just totally irrelevant to the exigencies of working class people in Ireland today. Left unity in this country is being held back by petty dogma and ego's. They are supposed to be the parties of the worker but it does seem being a big fish in their little pond is more important, while each blaming the other for the failings.

What is badly needed during this crisis is an articulate and tangible message from the left, outlining their alternative. I'm a socialist and am in socialist circles and I have absolutely no idea what the SP and SWP are saying is their economic alternative. As you say it's just the same old tired stuff. I would have hoped the left could make big strides during this crisis and have a good showing in the next GE, but looks like realistically being just 1 seat, maybe two. That tells its own story, during an economic crisis in capitalism the left will have the same amount of seats as it did during the boom. Great.
cheers a chara, I like you would describe myself as a Republican Socialist.
In the lost revolution one of the senior OIRA men in dublin said he wished he had learned quicker to write off the lads who came up sprouting ideology as that was a sure sign you had a bs artist on your hands. He seemed to regret the malign misdirection that the ideologues had and how they misdirected committed people who only cared about making the lives of the poor better. That man would have done more revolutionary work than the SP/SWP combined (btw I think the WP and officials lost all semblance of reality and I support them in no way). Maybe he had in mind people like Harris who was an uber ideologue.

No other part of the political spectrum except the left so values theoretical journals. The futher left is obsessed with fitting the world into its pre-conceived model and everytime it does not fit it either ignores it or castigates everyone else.

Its a suffocating movement stuck in the past and because it has failed to even consider how to represent itself in the modern world it has damned the word 'socialism' into being synonymous with loon.

They have done incalculable damage but remain true to expressing their philosophy in words from the past and in ways that only speak to themselves.

As regards the low electoral success for them. How could it be surprising. They have ensured it will be little. They will tell you the are the workers champions but the workers dont vote for them do they. Instead they will throuw out insults like lumpen proles etc. while despising each other for the position they would take on events that will never happen.

Its both depressing and infuriating. The one positive is that the electorate will give them the coup de grace in the end. And maybe then we can all move past their antiquated contrariness and build a society where the least well off dont get shafted as a rule.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,622
Whoever took the decision to rent the place and spend that much should be fired. I reckon the job (photos, framing etc) could have been done for about 4000. But, can't blame the councillors. of course you are going to turn up to the official photocall for your years as a Councillor.
You are clueless............its owned by the council.
 
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Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,622
Course no doubt that the Socialists will overlook the fact that it was one Ray Burke who ensured the house was bought for by the council from the Cobbe family.

It wasn't a surprise really as Cobbe family were always a decent family and Old Tommy Cobbe himself ensure lots of timber was available for fuel during one or two bad winters for the people of Donabate and Portrane.
 

Republican-Socialist

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Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
987
cheers a chara, I like you would describe myself as a Republican Socialist.
In the lost revolution one of the senior OIRA men in dublin said he wished he had learned quicker to write off the lads who came up sprouting ideology as that was a sure sign you had a bs artist on your hands. He seemed to regret the malign misdirection that the ideologues had and how they misdirected committed people who only cared about making the lives of the poor better. That man would have done more revolutionary work than the SP/SWP combined (btw I think the WP and officials lost all semblance of reality and I support them in no way). Maybe he had in mind people like Harris who was an uber ideologue.

No other part of the political spectrum except the left so values theoretical journals. The futher left is obsessed with fitting the world into its pre-conceived model and everytime it does not fit it either ignores it or castigates everyone else.

Its a suffocating movement stuck in the past and because it has failed to even consider how to represent itself in the modern world it has damned the word 'socialism' into being synonymous with loon.

They have done incalculable damage but remain true to expressing their philosophy in words from the past and in ways that only speak to themselves.

As regards the low electoral success for them. How could it be surprising. They have ensured it will be little. They will tell you the are the workers champions but the workers dont vote for them do they. Instead they will throuw out insults like lumpen proles etc. while despising each other for the position they would take on events that will never happen.

Its both depressing and infuriating. The one positive is that the electorate will give them the coup de grace in the end. And maybe then we can all move past their antiquated contrariness and build a society where the least well off dont get shafted as a rule.
Agreed.
 

No.11

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
64
Fingal County Council hiring of photographer for €9,471 is indefensible | Socialist Party

The decision of Fingal County Council officials to hire a photographer and have the photos taken of the 24 newly elected or re-elected Fingal County Councillors last year and then have the photos subsequently printed and framed at a cost of €9,471 is an indefensible extravagance in which the councillors themselves were entirely unwitting participants.

The location of the photo shoot, despite the impression Independent News and Media intended giving in their article, did not feature in the overall cost, as Newbridge House is owned by the public.

Similar photo shoots in the past for the Council website and Council publications were performed by a Council employee who retired in 2008 and was not replaced because of the recruitment embargo.

...

However, rather than focusing on the plain facts of this story, Independent News and Media have sought to single out the three Socialist Party councillors participation in the photo shoot and imply some sort of culpability on their part for the subsequent cost of the exercise of which they were not aware.

...

The Socialist Party stands over the records of all its elected representatives who are peerless fighters for working people and the unemployed and uniquely none of whom financially gain from the elected positions they hold.

...

In the context of the real political corruption and catastrophic decision made by the political, property and banking establishment this is a crude attempt to paint the Socialist Party as “the same as the rest”. It will not work.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Mar 20, 2005
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Website
greatdearleader.blogspot.com
They say that those who can afford to be Socialists are those with plenty of euros left once they've taxed the country to high heaven in pursuit of public-sector privilege and state-subsidised freebies like the 15% of child-benefit going to households earning in excess of €100,000. :roll:
 

evercloserunion

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
804
They say that those who can afford to be Socialists are those with plenty of euros left once they've taxed the country to high heaven in pursuit of public-sector privilege and state-subsidised freebies like the 15% of child-benefit going to households earning in excess of €100,000. :roll:
I'm pretty sure it's only you who says that.

Anyway, I presume that, had the three SP councilors declined to have their photo taken then this €10,000 expenditure would have been saved? And I presume that this can be proven?
 

garrett

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Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
160
expense

€10,000 for a photocall- surely not. I organised a public event recently with a Minister, Mayor and all the rest and the professional photographer was €300. Mind you I know that councils are quoted higher for jobs as compared to private sectors. Or at least the council's chosen Audiovisual supplier was the most expensive of the three quotes I went for.

You can't give out to the Socialist Party for attending because as a previous poster rightly points out the consequences for their boycott ie that they show no respect for .. blah
:)
 

waterford

Active member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
158
I don't think you're a Fianna Failer after that post. In fairness most FFer's would just give the usual clichés about socialism, have a giggle, and tell us all that FF live in the 'real world' and make the tough decisions.

I have many problems with the SP, as the first part of my username would imply I'm sure. But this thread is a bit ridiculous and my problems with the SP would be political ones and not criticisms based on clichés. Your post was a mature and valid one on their failures.

The SP and SWP/Pb4P seriously need to get their act together. Their whole holier than thou attitude does nothing but damage and impede the Irish left. Both of their ideologies are pretty much identical, they may argue that FF and FG are the same, but the reality s here is probably more differences between those two parties than the trots in Ireland.

Joe Higgins is part of the problem, as is the leadership of SWP. They are just far too dogmatic and would fall out over some march in the middle east or some finer point of soviet history. It is just totally irrelevant to the exigencies of working class people in Ireland today. Left unity in this country is being held back by petty dogma and ego's. They are supposed to be the parties of the worker but it does seem being a big fish in their little pond is more important, while each blaming the other for the failings.

What is badly needed during this crisis is an articulate and tangible message from the left, outlining their alternative. I'm a socialist and am in socialist circles and I have absolutely no idea what the SP and SWP are saying is their economic alternative. As you say it's just the same old tired stuff. I would have hoped the left could make big strides during this crisis and have a good showing in the next GE, but looks like realistically being just 1 seat, maybe two. That tells its own story, during an economic crisis in capitalism the left will have the same amount of seats as it did during the boom. Great.
Spot on, on all three counts. No change, no preparation for advantage of right-winged collapse, some good people on the left but they suffer from the same failings as the present crowd. They lack of vision in how to put forward a strong opposition to right-winged policies in government, they lack leadership and skilled politicans to do what is needed in order to prevent the wideing gap between those that have, and those who do not. The Irish people and left with no alternative (or little alternative) to present public choice representatives:mad:

Questions real democracy in Ireland:roll:
 

Catalpa

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Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,257
€10,000 for this set of mug shots is a friggin disgrace!:evil:

Who signed off on that one - because this stinks IMO.

I don't blame the SP Councillors for it BTW

- its a good idea but the cost is unjustified.

Ruth is dressed allright but the other 2 look like they are heading out on a pub crawl

- & not like public representatives should be attired when on duty on our behalf.:rolleyes:
 

jackryan

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Aug 3, 2008
Messages
3,723
Why are these pics needed at all? And the setting looks like a over dressed up french brothel!
 

MuchToDo

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Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
276
The total cost of taking the pictures, and putting 32 framed shots up in the 11 buildings, came to €9,471.
So the €10k paid for the shoot; the development, mounting and framing; and putting the photos up around the county. Still sounds a bit much but nowhere near a scandal.

The economy probably lost a lot more than €10k just by people like us reading and reacting to another piece of Independent trash.
Also, apart from the nonsense of the Indo singling out the Socialists, some maths are in order:

22 * 11 = 352

€9,471 / 352 = €27 approx per framed photo.

Not extraordinary for the goods, certainly doesn't seem to mean much was spent on the photoshoot itself given the printing and framing.

Yeah you could argue its unnecessary (although it is hardly a case where you can assume you are automatically right), but I don't think it makes sense for a council not to expend *any* efforts or money on informing people (in this case, mugshots in the library - again, hardly extraordinary).

Anyone getting worked up about this is simply allowing their brain to be remotely operated by the Indo.
 

Ruaidhri

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Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
117
1.The Socialist Party are quite clearly being singled out here. Fianna Fail(4),Fine Gael(6) and Labour(9) have more council seats than the Socialist Parties 3 seats but they are not mentioned.

2.The article implies that it was Newbridge House was rented out at huge cost to the taxpayer. The "mansion" that the pictures were taken in is owned by the state so it was of no cost to the taxpayer.

3.Socialist Party is Trotskyist meaning that is fully opposed to East Germany and any other Totalitarian Socialist States.

4.The Socialist Party councillors all take the average wage of a skilled worker so they make the least of all the councillors in that room and to paint them as champagne socialists is simply unfair.

Fair enough if you want to attack the SP's legitimate views and feel free to give them abuse if one of their councillers is found to be corrupt or taking liberties but that clearly isnt the case.Kelly and some of the people here are biased and don't seem to be aware of these facts.
 

evercloserunion

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Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
804
Fair enough if you want to attack the SP's legitimate views and feel free to give them abuse if one of their councillers is found to be corrupt or taking liberties but that clearly isnt the case.Kelly and some of the people here are biased and don't seem to be aware of these facts.
I would say they are well aware of the facts, but as you say they are biased, and facts count for very little, either here or in the Indo.
 


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