More Expense -Prison crisis to worsen as Britain to deport Irish criminals

neutral_lurker

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IRELAND’S prison overcrowding crisis is set to worsen after the British government announced plans to deport Irish inmates serving sentences in its jails back to this country.

Read more: Prison crisis to worsen as Britain to deport criminals | Irish Examiner


"We are looking at how we can transfer prisoners who are foreign nationals from Britain to other countries," said Mr Cameron when pressed to confirm the potential move in a House of Commons debate. "The previous government said it would not routinely support the deportation of Irish prisoners from the United Kingdom. I’m going to ask my right honourable friend, the justice secretary, to see if we can do better."


It is further anticipated that the number of people serving time in Ireland’s 14 jails will reach more than 6,000 over the next 12 months.

Of last month’s figure, 1,000 prisoners were either on early release or "unlawfully at large", partially due to the growing overcrowding problems in the system.

Read more: Prison crisis to worsen as Britain to deport criminals | Irish Examiner
 


neiphin

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only right and proper
 

corelli

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IRELAND’S prison overcrowding crisis is set to worsen after the British government announced plans to deport Irish inmates serving sentences in its jails back to this country.

Read more: Prison crisis to worsen as Britain to deport criminals | Irish Examiner


"We are looking at how we can transfer prisoners who are foreign nationals from Britain to other countries," said Mr Cameron when pressed to confirm the potential move in a House of Commons debate. "The previous government said it would not routinely support the deportation of Irish prisoners from the United Kingdom. I’m going to ask my right honourable friend, the justice secretary, to see if we can do better."


It is further anticipated that the number of people serving time in Ireland’s 14 jails will reach more than 6,000 over the next 12 months.

Of last month’s figure, 1,000 prisoners were either on early release or "unlawfully at large", partially due to the growing overcrowding problems in the system.

Read more: Prison crisis to worsen as Britain to deport criminals | Irish Examiner
Just a small point. It's not deportation, as the phrase is usually understood. It is prisoner transfer in order for them to serve out their sentences here.
 

Cabbage/Turnip

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fair play to britian.. this should be policy in every country.. no irish person should be for a foreigner to be in prison here
 

reknaw

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IRELAND’S prison overcrowding crisis is set to worsen after the British government announced plans to deport Irish inmates serving sentences in its jails back to this country.

Read more: Prison crisis to worsen as Britain to deport criminals | Irish Examiner
Both the Examiner article and the OP incorrectly use the word "deport".:rolleyes:

As far as I understand the matter, and as reported in better-quality publications, prisoners can be transferred to their home country to complete sentences imposed in another state that is a signatory to the Council of Europe Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons. However, this requires both countries concerned and the prisoner to agree to the move.;)

Undoubtedly, these conditions will be met in some cases, but I believe the majority of Irish prisoners in the UK will opt to remain there, because many of them have lived there for a long time, have families there, and so on.
 
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Hewson

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Yes, I agree and we should follow suit.

Anyone do a tot on the numbers of non-nationals we could 'shift' under a similar arrangement?
Probably not worth while. Some of our judges seem to have developed a soft spot for non-nationals, as in the recent acquittal of the Lithuanian who killed a four year old child a year ago, even though he'd been banned from driving and had no tax or insurance.

Crazy judgment.
 

reknaw

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Probably not worth while. Some of our judges seem to have developed a soft spot for non-nationals, as in the recent acquittal of the Lithuanian who killed a four year old child a year ago, even though he'd been banned from driving and had no tax or insurance.

Crazy judgment.

Care to give us a link, or even a few key words for Googling, so that we can look up this matter and decide for ourselves whether or not the judgement was crazy? Was it the judge or the jury who acquitted the defendant?:confused:
 

justme1

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Care to give us a link, or even a few key words for Googling, so that we can look up this matter and decide for ourselves whether or not the judgement was crazy? Was it the judge or the jury who acquitted the defendant?:confused:
The mother of the child was on Joe Duffy yesterday for the first 20/25 mins of the show as it is the first anniversary of the death of her child yesterday.
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

Yes lets take them. I imagine most people would prefer to look after some prisoners than the British banks. It would be cheaper.
 

reknaw

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The mother of the child was on Joe Duffy yesterday for the first 20/25 mins of the show as it is the first anniversary of the death of her child yesterday.

I didn't hear it as I rarely listen to Stuffy's show. When you hear one sigh, you've heard them all. I'd appreciate it if I could actually read some of the details of the case rather than hear one side only ...;)
 

Hewson

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Care to give us a link, or even a few key words for Googling, so that we can look up this matter and decide for ourselves whether or not the judgement was crazy? Was it the judge or the jury who acquitted the defendant?:confused:
Can't find a news link. The story was highlighted yesterday on Liveline during an interview with the mother of the child. On december 2nd 2009 a Lithuanian man who was driving someone else's van crashed into the car carrying the child and his father. The four year old was killed. The van driver had been suspended from driving for two years for drunk driving at the time of the crash and the van was untaxed and uninsured. Nor did he express any regret or remorse to the parents of the child, either at the time or subsequently.

He was banned from driving for two more years and walked free from court. The judge said he couldn't have avoided the crash.

I'd say he could have avoided the crash if he'd obeyed the original driving ban.
 
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Éireann go Brách

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That news link is missing the full text of Cameroons speech.

Its a two way street

228 UK citizens where commited to Irish prison last year thats 2.3% of all commitals.

34% of all Commitals are non-Irish national in Irish prisons.


Many of the Irish prisoners in UK jails are in UK for decades.
I am in favour of the general prinicle of deporting serious foreign prisoners in theory not necessary to save short term costs but as a deterent factor in preventing crime for a certain catergory of immigrant

i.e. IMO an Immigrant from a """less developed country"""" i.e. Congo
if he knows he is going to be deported for certain crimes is less likely
to commit them. The deportation is far more a deterent than fine or prison sentence.

Not sure if its a deterent factor in the UK-Ireland situation.

http://www.politics.ie/justice/135097-irelands-prison-population-non-irish-nationals-analysis.html
 

The OD

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Care to give us a link, or even a few key words for Googling, so that we can look up this matter and decide for ourselves whether or not the judgement was crazy? Was it the judge or the jury who acquitted the defendant?:confused:
Could it be this?

Court hears of tragic death of child - Mullingar Advertiser - October 01, 2010.

If so, its disgraceful. He took the van without permission, had no licence, no insurance and killed a baby. 4 months? Fúcking joke, even if he did serve it, which of course he won't.

According to the article, the driver is suffering from 'post traumatic stress', the Judge thinks he will have to live with the 'consequences' of his action for the rest of his life. She also came out with the marvellous statement: ''[Judge Elizabeth McGrath said] that she “could not leave over” the fact that 37-year-old Arnoldas Valinskas of 4 Belgard Green, Tallaght had been disqualified at the time and had not been driving for any emergency reason when four-year-old Peter Hennessy lost his life.''

Could not leave over? What in the name of God is this complete numbskull doing sitting on the bench. The man should not have been on the roads, if he wasnt, then the child might still be alive. Banned, uninsured, taking a car without permission, unlicensed. He may not have been directly responsible for the accident due to the unusual nature of the crash, but if someone gets locked up for no TV licence, surely the string of offence against him should mean longer in jail, or is it that we only jail those who actually inflict upon the state apparatus, ordinary children are not really considered under the law. Oh wait, they aren't, are they?



And his PTS is so bad he is appealing the case. Fúcking scum.
 
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reknaw

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Can't find a news link. The story was highlighted yesterday on Liveline during an interview with the mother of the child. On december 2nd 2009 a Lithuanian man who was driving someone else's van crashed into the car carrying the child and his father. The four year old was killed. The van driver had been suspended from driving for two years for drunk driving at the time of the crash and the van was untaxed and uninsured. Neither did he express any regret or remorse to the parents of the child, either at the time or subsequently.

He was banned from driving for two more years and walked free from court. The judge said he couldn't have avoided the crash.

I'd say he could have avoided the crash if he'd obeyed the original driving ban.
I wonder is this the same case? The date seems right and the details as well. I suggest you read the article and revise your earlier posts to bring them into line with the actual facts. I do not find it inconceivable that an Irish driver convicted of the same offence would have received about the same sentence.

Court hears of tragic death of child - Mullingar Advertiser - October 01, 2010.

Some points that contradict your account:

Court hears of tragic death of child
Mullingar Advertiser, October 01, 2010.

A disqualified, uninsured driver has been jailed for four months [he didn't get away Scot-free as claimed] after the van he was driving collided with another vehicle, resulting in the death of a four-year-old boy.

Judge Elizabeth McGrath accepted that the circumstances of the accident were tragic and that the driver was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder since it happened in December last year.


Following DPP directions [so it wasn't down to the judge having a "soft spot" for anyone], the Lithuanian ...was not charged in relation to the boy’s death or for any offence relating to his driving.

But he pleaded guilty to having no licence, no insurance, and to driving the van without the owner’s permission.

Little Peter Hennessy of Millcastle, Oldcastle had been going with his dad, also named Peter, to sell cattle at Moyvalley when, according to a garda report, one of the cattle moved in the Ifor Williams trailer their Land Cruiser was towing.

The jeep and trailer wobbled and overturned, landing at an awkward angle, partly on the slow lane.

Less than five minutes later Valinskas crashed into the Hennessys and their jeep, seriously injuring young Peter.

Prosecuting Garda Michael Daniels described the accident as ‘horrific and very tragic’.

When he arrived at the scene an off-duty nurse and doctor were trying to save the boy’s life, but the garda said he died shortly afterwards.

He said Valinskas was distraught at the scene but cooperative.

Garda Daniels said there’d been ‘a substantial investigation’ into what happened.

Ms Alison Hough, counsel for Valinskas, said he’d been suffering with post-traumatic stress disorder since the accident and has flashbacks.

She referred to a Garda forensic report which indicated he had not been at fault for the accident which came about as a result of ‘extraordinary circumstances.’

Judge McGrath said she had given serious thought to the case but had no choice but to impose a custodial sentence, despite knowing that he would have to live with the consequences of the accident for the rest of his life.

She declined an offer of compensation from Valinskas [which some would equate to an apology or expression of regret/remorse], who is now unemployed because of psychological trauma arising from the accident, saying that for the family’s sake she did not want to put a value on their child’s life.

--

A sad story all round, but it could just as well have been anyone who ran into the jack-knifed jeep and trailer. Even if the Lithuanina hadn't --- been born, or if there were no non-nationals to annoy us Irish.petunia
 

The OD

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I wonder is this the same case? The date seems right and the details as well. I suggest you read the article and revise your earlier posts to bring them into line with the actual facts. I do not find it inconceivable that an Irish driver convicted of the same offence would have received about the same sentence.

Court hears of tragic death of child - Mullingar Advertiser - October 01, 2010.

Some points that contradict your account:

Court hears of tragic death of child
Mullingar Advertiser, October 01, 2010.

A disqualified, uninsured driver has been jailed for four months [he didn't get away Scot-free as claimed] after the van he was driving collided with another vehicle, resulting in the death of a four-year-old boy.

Judge Elizabeth McGrath accepted that the circumstances of the accident were tragic and that the driver was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder since it happened in December last year.


Following DPP directions [so it wasn't down to the judge having a "soft spot" for anyone], the Lithuanian ...was not charged in relation to the boy’s death or for any offence relating to his driving.

But he pleaded guilty to having no licence, no insurance, and to driving the van without the owner’s permission.

Little Peter Hennessy of Millcastle, Oldcastle had been going with his dad, also named Peter, to sell cattle at Moyvalley when, according to a garda report, one of the cattle moved in the Ifor Williams trailer their Land Cruiser was towing.

The jeep and trailer wobbled and overturned, landing at an awkward angle, partly on the slow lane.

Less than five minutes later Valinskas crashed into the Hennessys and their jeep, seriously injuring young Peter.

Prosecuting Garda Michael Daniels described the accident as ‘horrific and very tragic’.

When he arrived at the scene an off-duty nurse and doctor were trying to save the boy’s life, but the garda said he died shortly afterwards.

He said Valinskas was distraught at the scene but cooperative.

Garda Daniels said there’d been ‘a substantial investigation’ into what happened.

Ms Alison Hough, counsel for Valinskas, said he’d been suffering with post-traumatic stress disorder since the accident and has flashbacks.

She referred to a Garda forensic report which indicated he had not been at fault for the accident which came about as a result of ‘extraordinary circumstances.’

Judge McGrath said she had given serious thought to the case but had no choice but to impose a custodial sentence, despite knowing that he would have to live with the consequences of the accident for the rest of his life.

She declined an offer of compensation from Valinskas [which some would equate to an apology or expression of regret/remorse], who is now unemployed because of psychological trauma arising from the accident, saying that for the family’s sake she did not want to put a value on their child’s life.

--

A sad story all round, but it could just as well have been anyone who ran into the jack-knifed jeep and trailer. Even if the Lithuanina hadn't --- been born, or if there were no non-nationals to annoy us Irish.petunia
I dont see any issue with his nationality, plenty of Irish people do the same thing and its the same story. Its the IRISH justice system that is at fault, selfish, unthinking @rseholes come in every nationality, this country is full of Irish @rseholes, some have even sat around the cabinet table, or at least gripped it tightly to stop their drunken, sodden fat @rses from falling under it.

Its beyond a joke. :-x
 

Don Herron

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oh great, another deport all foreign criminals thread. Relentless immigrant bashing on this site.
 

neutral_lurker

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Both the Examiner article and the OP incorrectly use the word "deport".:rolleyes:

As far as I understand the matter, and as reported in better-quality publications, prisoners can be transferred to their home country to complete sentences imposed in another state that is a signatory to the Council of Europe Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons. However, this requires both countries concerned and the prisoner to agree to the move.;)
Undoubtedly, these conditions will be met in some cases, but I believe the majority of Irish prisoners in the UK will opt to remain there, because many of them have lived there for a long time, have families there, and so on.
FYI

you may take the issue up with 'Call Me Dave' Cameron as he is the one who used the word deport in his speech on the matter in the House of Commons and the article is reporting on his comments.

Mr Cameron said: “You make an extremely good point. We are looking at how you can transfer prisoners, foreign nationals, from the UK to other countries. Obviously with Ireland, the situation is slightly different because of the long relationship between our two countries.

“The previous government announced that it would not routinely support the deportation of Irish nationals from the UK. This was announced in February 2007.

“Since then there has been a European directive which is actually helpful because it makes more automatic the removal of prisoners to other countries.

“But there is still this specific issue with Ireland and I am going to ask the justice secretary to look at it and see if we can do a little better,” he continued.


I suggest you look further than "the better quality publications":rolleyes: you are reading to enhance your understanding on the matter

A European Union prisoner transfer agreement, which comes into force next year, will not require the consent of the prisoner and could enable the return of many more people to EU countries.

MP links prisoner transfer to British loan for Ireland - The Irish Times - Thu, Dec 02, 2010
 
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Hewson

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I wonder is this the same case? The date seems right and the details as well. I suggest you read the article and revise your earlier posts to bring them into line with the actual facts. I do not find it inconceivable that an Irish driver convicted of the same offence would have received about the same sentence.

Some points that contradict your account:

Court hears of tragic death of child
Mullingar Advertiser, October 01, 2010.

A disqualified, uninsured driver has been jailed for four months [he didn't get away Scot-free as claimed] after the van he was driving collided with another vehicle, resulting in the death of a four-year-old boy.

Judge Elizabeth McGrath accepted that the circumstances of the accident were tragic and that the driver was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder since it happened in December last year.

Following DPP directions [so it wasn't down to the judge having a "soft spot" for anyone], the Lithuanian ...was not charged in relation to the boy’s death or for any offence relating to his driving.

But he pleaded guilty to having no licence, no insurance, and to driving the van without the owner’s permission.

Little Peter Hennessy of Millcastle, Oldcastle had been going with his dad, also named Peter, to sell cattle at Moyvalley when, according to a garda report, one of the cattle moved in the Ifor Williams trailer their Land Cruiser was towing.

The jeep and trailer wobbled and overturned, landing at an awkward angle, partly on the slow lane.

Less than five minutes later Valinskas crashed into the Hennessys and their jeep, seriously injuring young Peter.

Prosecuting Garda Michael Daniels described the accident as ‘horrific and very tragic’.

When he arrived at the scene an off-duty nurse and doctor were trying to save the boy’s life, but the garda said he died shortly afterwards.

He said Valinskas was distraught at the scene but cooperative.

Garda Daniels said there’d been ‘a substantial investigation’ into what happened.

Ms Alison Hough, counsel for Valinskas, said he’d been suffering with post-traumatic stress disorder since the accident and has flashbacks.

She referred to a Garda forensic report which indicated he had not been at fault for the accident which came about as a result of ‘extraordinary circumstances.’

Judge McGrath said she had given serious thought to the case but had no choice but to impose a custodial sentence, despite knowing that he would have to live with the consequences of the accident for the rest of his life.

She declined an offer of compensation from Valinskas [which some would equate to an apology or expression of regret/remorse], who is now unemployed because of psychological trauma arising from the accident, saying that for the family’s sake she did not want to put a value on their child’s life.

A sad story all round, but it could just as well have been anyone who ran into the jack-knifed jeep and trailer. Even if the Lithuanina hadn't --- been born, or if there were no non-nationals to annoy us Irish.petunia
Obviously I ran the risk of sounding xenophobic by mentioning the man's nationality in the first instance. But my issue is with the outcome of the case, not his nationality. I don't distinguish between offenses committed by Irish and non-Irish.

Having missed the beginning of the interview on radio yesterday I didn't hear of the custodial sentence. Even so, the sentence is too light, given that the man was driving while banned and that he DID kill the child. We're not talking about a parking ticket here.

As for the post-traumatic stress . . . yeah, sure. The usual story with violin string accompaniment. This kind of plea is par for the course and I don't know why you'd bother highlighting it for emphasis. I'm sure he's in bits, though not too distraught to appeal an overly-lenient sentence.

How much do you think the parents should have accepted as compensation? If you have a child what value do you put on his/her life? A figure of €300 Euro being offered was mentioned by the mother yesterday. That might go some way towards a decent headstone.

The crash may have been a tragic accident, but the fact remains that the child would be alive today if the culprit had not been driving. Four months is a paltry sentence and rather than fighting it he might accept it as small retribution for what he did.

Then I might accept his expressions of remorse.
 


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