More visas for non EU migrants now been actively considered by Government - is this wise?

Catalpast

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Visas for low-skilled migrants may be loosened
The Government is to review the current employment permits regime as the economy booms and unemployment falls.
The Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation claims to be coming under pressure to open up the permits system to allow "lower-skilled workers" in certain sectors.
The unemployment rate is forecast to fall to around 5.5pc this year. Wage growth has also intensified, rising four times faster in the period between the end of June 2016 and the end of June 2017.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/visas-for-lowskilled-migrants-may-be-loosened-36456499.html

Yes folks as we start the year with a huge backlog of homelessness, overcrowding in hospitals, long school waiting lists and a complete lack of forward planning by the political establishment the latest plan is to allow an even a wider net of people into the State.

'Lower skilled workers' are what we now need more of apparently. And preferably ones from outside the EU at that.

Of course we are part of the EU and employers can tap into a labour market of some 500 million people as it is.

So why the need to look outside of the EU for workers?

Of course 'lower skilled' is code for 'lower paid' as Irish employers are desperate to drive down wages and working conditions even further

- and increase their profit margins.

Now it may be obvious to you and me that the Workers of Ireland can gain nothing from increased competition for jobs, accommodation, health care etc

- but the Capitalist system most certainly stands to gain by having access to an even greater supply of cheaper labour

Is this wise

- or as they say Qui bono ?:?
 


Hitchcock

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Visas for low-skilled migrants may be loosened
The Government is to review the current employment permits regime as the economy booms and unemployment falls.
The Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation claims to be coming under pressure to open up the permits system to allow "lower-skilled workers" in certain sectors.
The unemployment rate is forecast to fall to around 5.5pc this year. Wage growth has also intensified, rising four times faster in the period between the end of June 2016 and the end of June 2017.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/visas-for-lowskilled-migrants-may-be-loosened-36456499.html

Yes folks as we start the year with a huge backlog of homelessness, overcrowding in hospitals, long school waiting lists and a complete lack of forward planning by the political establishment the latest plan is to allow an even a wider net of people into the State.

'Lower skilled workers' are what we now need more of apparently. And preferably ones from outside the EU at that.

Of course we are part of the EU and employers can tap into a labour market of some 500 million people as it is.

So why the need to look outside of the EU for workers?

Of course 'lower skilled' is code for 'lower paid' as Irish employers are desperate to drive down wages and working conditions even further

- and increase their profit margins.

Now it may be obvious to you and me that the Workers of Ireland can gain nothing from increased competition for jobs, accommodation, health care etc

- but the Capitalist system most certainly stands to gain by having access to an even greater supply of cheaper labour

Is this wise

- or as they say Qui bono ?:?
Of course the only solution to exploitative profit hungry employers is to keep out migrants.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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As long as there's 1 Irish/EU person unemployed in Ireland there should be no more visas.

Government needs to solve the actual problem as opposed to conveniently papering over it and benefiting their low cost employment/high rent economic wet dream.

Everyone on the "dole" costs the tax payer about €10k a year in direct social welfare and probably more in RA, etc., so every low skilled migrant in the country is being subsidized by this amount by the tax payer.
 

Finbar10

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Visas for low-skilled migrants may be loosened
The Government is to review the current employment permits regime as the economy booms and unemployment falls.
The Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation claims to be coming under pressure to open up the permits system to allow "lower-skilled workers" in certain sectors.
The unemployment rate is forecast to fall to around 5.5pc this year. Wage growth has also intensified, rising four times faster in the period between the end of June 2016 and the end of June 2017.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/visas-for-lowskilled-migrants-may-be-loosened-36456499.html

Yes folks as we start the year with a huge backlog of homelessness, overcrowding in hospitals, long school waiting lists and a complete lack of forward planning by the political establishment the latest plan is to allow an even a wider net of people into the State.

'Lower skilled workers' are what we now need more of apparently. And preferably ones from outside the EU at that.

Of course we are part of the EU and employers can tap into a labour market of some 500 million people as it is.

So why the need to look outside of the EU for workers?

Of course 'lower skilled' is code for 'lower paid' as Irish employers are desperate to drive down wages and working conditions even further

- and increase their profit margins.

Now it may be obvious to you and me that the Workers of Ireland can gain nothing from increased competition for jobs, accommodation, health care etc

- but the Capitalist system most certainly stands to gain by having access to an even greater supply of cheaper labour

Is this wise

- or as they say Qui bono ?:?
I notice there's talk of the need for 5000 chefs. At one time, while being a tough enough job, a chef in Ireland could hope to get a reasonable wage (pay a mortgage, raise a family etc.). Then hotels got a taste of Eastern European labour, and wage rates and conditions worsened. It seems now with cost of living in Ireland and sh1te wage rates, they just can't attract Eastern Europeans anymore. So the solution: bring in some Mexican and other third world chefs, and knock the bottom out of the conditions completely (bring in people happy just to even get in here on a visa in the first place and share a house with multiple other people). There has been talk of issuing big number of third world chef visas doing the rounds for the past few years. Another profession that an Irish person hoping to raise and family and pay a mortgage will have to avoid I guess.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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I notice there's talk of the need for 5000 chefs. At one time, while being a tough enough job, a chef in Ireland could hope to get a reasonable wage (pay a mortgage, raise a family etc.). Then hotels got a taste of Eastern European labour, and wage rates and conditions worsened. It seems now with cost of living in Ireland and sh1te wage rates, they just can't attract Eastern Europeans anymore. So the solution: bring in some Mexican and other third world chefs, and knock the bottom out of the conditions completely (bring in people happy just to even get in here on a visa in the first place and share a house with multiple other people). There has been talk of issues big number of third world chef visas doing the rounds for the past few years.
Government sanctioned race to the bottom where only the usual suspects win and everyone else loses.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Well how about put those safeguards for workers in place 1st

- and then see where we go from there.....
It's a two way street, though.

As long as there's people on the dole the government should be far more proactive in getting people into jobs.

The state can't on one hand house and pay dole to the unemployed in one area while "importing" cheap labour into another.
 

wombat

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There is a worldwide shortage of chefs, it can be quite a well paying job, don't mistake chefs from your local takeaway cook.
On the main subject, its an idea too stupid for words, where will they all live? more tents?
 

Disillusioned democrat

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There is a worldwide shortage of chefs, it can be quite a well paying job, don't mistake chefs from your local takeaway cook.
On the main subject, its an idea too stupid for words, where will they all live? more tents?
Sadly this doesn't disqualify it in the governments eyes...cheap labour, more tenants...

 

wombat

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Apart from being a stupid idea, its also dangerous, it won't take a lot to stir up the racist streak in people whose livelihoods are threatened.
 

SamsonS

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It's a two way street, though.

As long as there's people on the dole the government should be far more proactive in getting people into jobs.

The state can't on one hand house and pay dole to the unemployed in one area while "importing" cheap labour into another.
What exactly is more proactive DD? Are you suggesting that the rate of decline in numbers unemployed is not fast enough? That if the gov did more that this might fall quicker?
 

Prester Jim

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I notice there's talk of the need for 5000 chefs. At one time, while being a tough enough job, a chef in Ireland could hope to get a reasonable wage (pay a mortgage, raise a family etc.). Then hotels got a taste of Eastern European labour, and wage rates and conditions worsened. It seems now with cost of living in Ireland and sh1te wage rates, they just can't attract Eastern Europeans anymore. So the solution: bring in some Mexican and other third world chefs, and knock the bottom out of the conditions completely (bring in people happy just to even get in here on a visa in the first place and share a house with multiple other people). There has been talk of issuing big number of third world chef visas doing the rounds for the past few years. Another profession that an Irish person hoping to raise and family and pay a mortgage will have to avoid I guess.
That's all this is about, reduce wages and conditions for workers here and weaken the unions. This govt and every govt in recent memory have been about laying down and letting corporations have their way with us. It is treason whatever the definition in law says.
 

paulp

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As long as there's 1 Irish/EU person unemployed in Ireland there should be no more visas.

Government needs to solve the actual problem as opposed to conveniently papering over it and benefiting their low cost employment/high rent economic wet dream.

Everyone on the "dole" costs the tax payer about €10k a year in direct social welfare and probably more in RA, etc., so every low skilled migrant in the country is being subsidized by this amount by the tax payer.
1?
So 1 unemployed part time farmer in Donegal means Microsoft in Dublin can't sponsor a visa for someone from US?
 

Roberto Jordan

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1?
So 1 unemployed part time farmer in Donegal means Microsoft in Dublin can't sponsor a visa for someone from US?
Microsoft don’t sponsor visas for unskilled or semi skilled workers, which are the cohorts that the story refers to. I suspect this is also what DD was speaking to.
Given the pool of legally available labor in the EU much of which already undercuts prevailing or expected ( in absence of Warsaw Pact accession) wage rates this seems a nonsensical idea bound to create social and fiscal issues in the short term due to current well discussed issues in housing and in long term when business cycle does what it inevitably will and slows.
But gombeen “entrepreneurs” in the hospitality, construction, agricultural and retail sectors tend to be the folks supporting political parties rather than actual innovators ( too busy or poor) or MNCs
 
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Roll_On

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Almost half of Spain and Greece's youth are unemployed, that's tens of millions of people right there. They have great English and are easily assimilated into Irish culture. Why can't they fill the low skilled roles if there is not enough Irish to take them?

If we remove long term unemployment as an option, build lots of apartments to reduce the cost of living (so that the low skilled can actually afford to live here) and throw the odd jobs fair in Madrid and Athens, then we don't need low skilled visas at all. We have access to the massive EU labour market which includes some very poor regions, visas should only be for whatever skills cannot be got here, which is usually very niche and typically well paid.
 

paulp

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Microsoft don’t sponsor visas for unskilled or semi skilled workers, which are the cohorts that the story refers to. I suspect this is also what DD was speaking to.
Given the pool of legally available labor in the EU much of which already undercuts prevailing or expected ( in absence of Warsaw Pact accession) wage rates this seems a nonsensical idea bound to create social and fiscal issues in the short term due to current well discussed issues in housing and in long term when business cycle does what it inevitably will and slows.
Someone cleans the Microsoft office every evening. But that's besides the point.

I accept the principle that as long as unemployment is high in Ireland, we should be very slow to issue visas.
But when unemployment falls below a certain threshold, we should be open to issuing visas.
My point is that that threshold is not 1.
 

paulp

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Almost half of Spain and Greece's youth are unemployed, that's tens of millions of people right there. They have great English and are easily assimilated into Irish culture. Why can't they fill the low skilled roles if there is not enough Irish to take them?

If we remove long term unemployment as an option, build lots of apartments to reduce the cost of living (so that the low skilled can actually afford to live here) and throw the odd jobs fair in Madrid and Athens, then we don't need low skilled visas at all. We have access to the massive EU labour market which includes some very poor regions, visas should only be for whatever skills cannot be got here, which is usually very niche and typically well paid.
That's already happening.
 

Roberto Jordan

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Someone cleans the Microsoft office every evening. But that's besides the point.

I accept the principle that as long as unemployment is high in Ireland, we should be very slow to issue visas.
But when unemployment falls below a certain threshold, we should be open to issuing visas.
My point is that that threshold is not 1.
Im still not convinced. Brexit has highlighted the assumptions made by the EU itself and it’s most vehement supporters in regard to what it is. I don’t think any EU nation should be issuing visas for low skilled workers while there are regions of high unemployment. Unless, that is, it ain’t what it purports yo be...
 

Roll_On

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That's already happening.
Well no, there is no serious effort ongoing to reduce the cost of housing. Only a handful of apartment schemes going ahead, most construction in Dublin at the moment is on office schemes. Apartment development continues to be dogged by planners imposing onerous and unrealistic conditions, and the current government is ideologically opposed to the concept of social housing.
 

SamsonS

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In 2017, 8776 new permits were issued to non EEA citizens. A further 1818 permits were renewed.

Of the new, the largest, by a mile is India 3,131.
Second, is Philippines on 693, then US on 669 , and Pakistan on 594, Brazil on 587.

The next set are below 300, Egypt, Chine, South Africa and Sudan.

Looking at the employers, the largest is Google, and then a raft of hospitals.
 


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