Mountjoy Governor Lonergan:most Mountjoy criminals live in a few Dublin postal codes

patslatt

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John Lonergan,recently retired as Governor of Mountjoy after a forty two year career,never tired of pointing out that most of Mountjoy prison's criminals live within a few Dublin postal codes.Although he didn't claim to be an expert,he felt that improved social services in schools,housing and counselling could help prevent criminality in socially deprived areas,especially among families that have criminal histories over several generations.

A completely different view is that of the sociologist Charles Murray who has written extensively on educational failure-which is closely associated with high crime rates-in US minority ghettos of black and hispanic Americans. He cites evidence that seems to prove the futility of trying to educate children and teenagers raised in the ghetto culture which is at best indifferent to education and at worst hostile to any child who appears to be studious. He quotes from extensive research including US government reports showing that even the best ghetto schools achieve only small improvements in functional illiteracy.

If Murray's view is correct,the solution is to scatter the socially deprived families as widely as possible in the hope that their children will pick up mainstream working class and middle class values and an improved attitude towards education. There isn't much point in rehousing them in brand new housing estate ghettos,as seems to be the present policy.

This scattergun housing policy has one big disadvantage. One or two dysfunctional families,especially where the parents are addicted to drugs and alcohol, can cause havoc when they move into small towns and villages. The only solution in my opinion seems harsh: to put their children up for adoption as soon as possible.

The social workers and police involved in such adoption decisions would need to be highly competent as British experience has shown that stupid and unjust adoption decisions can easily happen when social services aren't properly funded.
 


LeDroit

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Shock news: Skangers raise skangers.

No amount of education from 9am to 4pm five days a week can correct defective and dysfunctional parenting for the remaining 17 hours a day, seven days a week.

Some people just shouldn't be parents but the PC brigade which control the media and the permanent govt will never act in the best interest of those children.
 

Red_93

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Shock news: Skangers raise skangers.

No amount of education from 9am to 4pm five days a week can correct defective and dysfunctional parenting for the remaining 17 hours a day, seven days a week.

Some people just shouldn't be parents but the PC brigade which control the media and the permanent govt will never act in the best interest of those children.
FT, what did we tell you about multiple accounts?:mad:
 

LeDroit

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FT, what did we tell you about multiple accounts?:mad:
Coming from a poster that is undergoing a very public descent into multiple personality disorder! Give us an aul prayer there. :)
 

Red_93

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Coming from a poster that is undergoing a very public descent into multiple personality disorder! Give us an aul prayer there. :)
As you wish:
Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy towards us. And after this our exile, show unto us the blessed Fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary. Pray for us, o Holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ. Amen.
 

SevenStars

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Some people just shouldn't be parents but the PC brigade which control the media and the permanent govt will never act in the best interest of those children.
Isnt that going against libertarian principles? :eek:

Are you saying that the state should intervene and take away people's individual liberty for the sake of greater social good? :eek:
 

Cato

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As you wish:
Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy towards us. And after this our exile, show unto us the blessed Fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary. Pray for us, o Holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ. Amen.
Tut tut, you disappoint me. That should be recited in Latin - far more elegant.

Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiae,
vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve.
ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevae,
ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
in hac lacrimarum valle.
Eia, ergo, advocata nostra, illos tuos
misericordes oculos ad nos converte;
et Jesum, benedictum fructum ventris tui,
nobis post hoc exsilium ostende.
O clemens, O pia, O dulcis Virgo Maria.
And to really do it justice, one has to sing it in plainchant, naturally.
 

Cato

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Isnt that going against libertarian principles? :eek:

Are you saying that the state should intervene and take away people's individual liberty for the sake of greater social good? :eek:
Nice catch! Although I expect LeDroit to smoothly wriggle off that particular hook, liberty being something that only properly and fully belongs to adults.
 

LeDroit

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Isnt that going against libertarian principles? :eek:

Are you saying that the state should intervene and take away people's individual liberty for the sake of greater social good? :eek:
Of course not. The individual rights of the children are being enforced. Also, I would sell the children. ;)
 

captainwillard

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Nice catch! Although I expect LeDroit to smoothly wriggle off that particular hook, liberty being something that only properly and fully belongs to adults.
Seems like Seven thinks you are one of the worthy ones. Well done lad.

Anyone who hasever been to Singapore will marvel at the lack of crime and cleanliness of the place.

Skangers breed skangers. Sad but true. The cycle of disadvantage always repeats itself.
 

Red_93

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Tut tut, you disappoint me. That should be recited in Latin - far more elegant.



And to really do it justice, one has to sing it in plainchant, naturally.
You just googled that.
 

Nipper

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Shock news: Skangers raise skangers.

No amount of education from 9am to 4pm five days a week can correct defective and dysfunctional parenting for the remaining 17 hours a day, seven days a week.

Some people just shouldn't be parents but the PC brigade which control the media and the permanent govt will never act in the best interest of those children.

And snobs raise snobs.

Scumbags from good families and good schools are as well able to kick someone to death as a skanger.

It's the fact that the justice system is biased is the real problem.

Money is all that matters in this Kip of a country where the poor could be locked up to work as slave labour for so called Christian Orders .
 

sport02

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I wonder how many white collar criminals passed the through the gates of Mount Joy, during Lonergan's reign.
 

Cato

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You just googled that.
No, at one point in my life I would have chanted that antiphon nightly, in the correct liturgical season, of course.
 

captainwillard

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And snobs raise snobs.

Scumbags from good families and good schools are as well able to kick someone to death as a skanger.

It's the fact that the justice system is biased is the real problem.

Money is all that matters in this Kip of a country where the poor could be locked up to work as slave labour for so called Christian Orders .
Much more likely to be beaten up by a scumbag from Ballymun Nealstown than a scumbag from Blackrock College.

Justice system protects middle class? I dont think so. Those scumbags are locked up and released next day.
 

eoghanacht

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Why not sterilise everyone currently in jail and say anyone who fails their junior cert. Nevermind the pussyfooting around.

Ofcourse another way one might interpret the OP is that there is no conviction rate for white collar crime worth talking about in this country.

Who has done more to damage the future social, political and financial independence of this country?

Here's a hint it's not 'johnno' the low level drug dealer or the 'major players' the SW spends all their time fixated upon.
 

Cato

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I wonder how many white collar criminals passed the through the gates of Mount Joy, during Lonergan's reign.
If I remember correctly, I believe he said, on a recent radio interview, that less than ten did so during his time there.
 

captainwillard

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Why not sterilise everyone currently in jail and say anyone who fails their junior cert. Nevermind the pussyfooting around.

Ofcourse another way one might interpret the OP is that there is no conviction rate for white collar crime worth talking about in this country.

Who has done more to damage the future social, political and financial independence of this country?

Here's a hint it's not 'johnno' the low level drug dealer or the 'major players' the SW spends all their time fixated upon.
Oh dear... last time I read your post it was''' this could have been a great little country':p
 


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