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Mull of Kintyre Crash 1994

Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,622
From the first time I heard of it I knew
1.) it hadn't been carried out by PIRA
2.) There was something not quite right with it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinook_cr ... of_Kintyre

Reasons why

1.) Standard Operating Procedure within military and civilians leadership is you never put all the eggs in 1 basket, its why a President and VP never travel together, a Senior General and his deputy never in the same Helicopter etc etc. This is drilled into senior military people throughout their life and the people on board the copter would have known it more than anybody that a single hit would do a lot of damage. Why put everybody in 1 copter when a jet can easily be called up. Bear in mind Pilots were on duty for 6 hrs before crash waiting to takeoff.

2.) Those who died lived in paranoia, everwhere they went everything they did outside of a secure base was always done mindful there could be someone with a gun / bomb planted close by. They were the establisment and they ensured they looked after themselves and controlled what was happening. Living like that and being aware of the risk of everybody being on 1 aircraft would mean that someone senior was requiring them in 1 place. These people would err on side of caution always as thats how they lived.

3.) The alledged conference they were supposed to attend never seems to have happened so finding out whether it was ever going to occur, its subject matter, attendees etc would show if it was real or a made up one designed to lull people into a false sense of security. It had to be BIG as these people don't do small events.

4.) The roadblocks to a peace agreement in NI were not either side but the vested intersts that needed the war to continue, the Raison D'etre of existence and their power came from a war. Any settlement of that would make them and their power redundant.

5.) In 1912 The British Army had an internal mutiny over home rule and supported Carson and the Unionists. In the 1970's during the UWC strikes the military effectively stood by while anarchy reigned. This was coordinate and run by a select group of individuals who believed themselves untouchable and loyal to themselves and NOT the UK Government. The UK establishment knows history and together with the US would have known what the risks were and who the people who could keep the war going were. Eliminating a risk in an accident is effective and there is no backlash unlike Bloody Sunday in 1920.

6.) Setting the scene for "an accident" takes some planning but hell even Tom Clancy did this in one of his books by getting a problem logged days earlier or to build up over months to ensure there is enough"Evidence" to stop crash investigators looking further than it being an accident. In relation to this Chinook crash its all there.

7.) The weather on the Mull was awful on that day with lots of mist, low visibility etc, perfect flying blind weather, where pilots required to use mapping software and rely on it. The Pilots were special forces pilots who knew how to use the software and rely on it. Changing the settings so instead of being at 250 feet you are at 150 feet is easily done when you have all the source codes and is pretty hard to prove when the same people who changed it are investigating it. Keeping them on station for 6 hrs before the flight was also part of the ruse as the copter hit the cliffs at full power so blame the pilots.

A government will kill its citizens when its in its interests to do so.

I have always believed that the people who died on the Chinook were killed maybe not by the Brits but by someone who was doing a "Black Op" with the full support of the UK Govt, only 1 country could arrange something like this well and its best at it is the US / CIA.

Lots of loose ends tied up and the barriers to peace have not all disappeared but just being reduced.

Course its only 1 stage on the path but eliminating the blockers also means that other blockers are aware as a clear message has been sent.

Did the elimination help the GFA ?

Most definitely as the opposition was political in origin with no war campaign being carried out by vested interests.
 


jerryp

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
95
Expect bennypeavoy to come along any second now and point the finger at Pat Rabbitte !
 

corkman2007

Active member
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
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167
Was there a grassy knoll involved?
 

jerryp

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
95
wise_old_owl said:
Far Fetched
If you believe this you should also agree that Pat Finnuncial was in the IRA
Recover from Béal na mBláth yet ?

That book is taking a while. Have you a case of writer's block ?
 

Eirenua

Active member
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Jan 7, 2007
Messages
280
Reminds of when two RUC officers were killed in the 1980's. Their Land Rover skidded of the road and hit a tree. The IRA admitted responsibility, they said they planted it.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
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jjacollins said:
A wonderful day.

Loads of terrorists and murderers done away with in one swoop.
Yes great day all right.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
23
Eirenua said:
Reminds of when two RUC officers were killed in the 1980's. Their Land Rover skidded of the road and hit a tree. The IRA admitted responsibility, they said they planted it.
Not really an original one but funny all the same.
By the way odie aint to far off on this one either, and for the gombeen meriweather that states the securocrats are killing each other, if he had any knowledge of the war in the 6counties he'd find that this was common procedure :roll:
 

raff

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Joined
Jul 28, 2005
Messages
38
Eirenua said:
Reminds of when two RUC officers were killed in the 1980's. Their Land Rover skidded of the road and hit a tree. The IRA admitted responsibility, they said they planted it.
What's the difference between a dead Brit on the road and a dead hedgehog?

There are skid marks before the hedgehog. Sorry I couldn't help myself after Eiranua's post.
 

Destiny's Soldier

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
2,328
Nice one Odie. Could have been something I would have put up. There’s logic to it and if someone of a sufficently high ranking made a judgement call to clean up a mess, then that’s just business, nothing personal. The only part that doesn’t make sense to me is why involve a foreign agency in an otherwise British internal matter. I don’t know anything about the people who died, but if they were needed to be put away for the greater good, then that call would have been taken. Whether Downing St directly were involved I don’t know. Unlikely, but possible.

It could have been a simple accident. But accidents don’t just happen. The key to finding that out was finding out who investigated the crash? who had access to the flight instruments afterwards? Was it a National body or a Military one
 
Joined
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Destiny's Soldier said:
Nice one Odie. Could have been something I would have put up. There’s logic to it and if someone of a sufficently high ranking made a judgement call to clean up a mess, then that’s just business, nothing personal. The only part that doesn’t make sense to me is why involve a foreign agency in an otherwise British internal matter. I don’t know anything about the people who died, but if they were needed to be put away for the greater good, then that call would have been taken. Whether Downing St directly were involved I don’t know. Unlikely, but possible.

It could have been a simple accident. But accidents don’t just happen. The key to finding that out was finding out who investigated the crash? who had access to the flight instruments afterwards? Was it a National body or a Military one
Reason US is plausibly deniability. UK PM can honestly say that UK forces were not involved in killing their own people.

More importantly these people were survivors who had survived in NI and would have own network of friends / etc so using outside means no links or warnings ..less messy.

US have had a lot of involvement in Ireland going back to the Treaty - US refused to let Brits deploy Battleships in Singapore / Hong Kong post WW1 unless something happened re Irish Independence. It wasn't reason there was a Treaty but was a consideration that Brits bore in mind.

Father Daly mentioned meeting an Irish person when he helped ship a Catholic RUC man across into Donegal and later meeting same guy at White House who clearly worked for Americans and was finding out what was happening in Derry. Appears guy wasn't State Dept i.e tied in with Embassy as State has always been pro Brit.

US / UK are tight with each other but US pursues own aims and they know who is who and what was happening in NI even if never publicly acknowledged. Uk owned companies also used to spy on US Citizens but all data passed to US so US can claim its Govt / Agencies has never spied on its citizens just get someone else to do it and pass the info on. UK sold its soul to beat the Nazi's.

There was also the matter of the technology so having prob with it can be blamed on manufacturer (Boeing) who had done as US has asked so rap on knuckles which was a smokescreen.

Investigation (Military) concluded Pilot Error and they were at fault as it had hit the Cliff at full power with no attempt to do anything.

Remember Pilots are Special Ops who have trained for crap weather and flying blind and silent. Sorry but claiming fatigue when they would do long ops as part of job is crap.

It was a perfect black op where loose ends cleared up with no comeback and even Pilots were eventually exonerated after some time. Campbelltown airport which has been used for rendition flights was where staged out of.

Ops like this can only be decided at the highest levels within Govt.
 

Joe Ryan

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
32
Accidents happen. I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next one, but to sugest that the pilot and co-pilot were of such poor standard that they both made the same fatal error or were both complicit in their own deaths takes the biscuit.
Can't believe it especially since the source is wikipedia. Is the computer that entered that in the Vatican or Stormont? :shock2:
 

GerryAnderson

New member
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
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Destiny's Soldier said:
Nice one Odie. Could have been something I would have put up.
Never was a more damning sentence written.

[PS it was pilot error or computer navigation error, still to be determined]
 

Seamus

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Joined
Oct 25, 2005
Messages
56
Website
monaghan32csm.blogs.ie
Some of the branchmen that were killed (ian phoenix was one of them) felt that the ira at the time could have been defeated militarily and opposed the political talks.
I recently read a utterly cringeworthy piece of propaganda written about him which portrays the branch as saints,this at a time when the whole collusion issue was being raised outside republican circles.

As for the crash itself i doubt whether even the tories would contemplate this as the repercussions would be devastating.
 

GerryAnderson

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Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
3
Destiny's Soldier said:
It could have been a simple accident. But accidents don’t just happen.
This quote has actually rendered me speechless. Can I use it as my signature? It is almost the definition of paranoid delusion, synthesised into an concise phrase.
 

joel

Well-known member
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
803
GerryAnderson said:
Destiny's Soldier said:
It could have been a simple accident. But accidents don’t just happen.
This quote has actually rendered me speechless. Can I use it as my signature? It is almost the definition of paranoid delusion, synthesised into an concise phrase.

Yes, crazy. Surely the definition of an accident is that it "just happens".
 

vito corleone

Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
12
The amount of dark information that died with these people is incalculable. To refer back to the start, what intelligence agency would put all their best assets in one helicopter? I'm not saying the Chinook was hit by a rocket launcher, I'm not saying it wasn't just an accident, but I do think the whole episode is v. iffy.
 


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