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Music in Ireland


tumeltyni

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Oct 10, 2003
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Can anyone remember when we last had a discussion of music or the other performing arts within this forum? Especially considering the contribution of Irish music to tourism and our economy. Must sit down some time and write stuff down.

Anyway, there's a meeting in the University Concert Hall in Limerick next Monday if anyone's around. Discussion topics include "Getting Out The Vote" in the run up to the election, a report from the Arts and Education Committee (an important joint initiative between the Department of Arts, Sports and Tourism and the Department of Education), a report on the Local Music Education Partnerships and the findings of the Arts Council's recent Contemporary Music Review. There will also be information updates on the Federation of Music Collectives becoming First Music Contact, the Arts Council's DEIS funding scheme for the Traditional Arts, and a discussion of the "Challenges in Higher Education".

If you'd like more information about the meeting let me know, it'd be great to have some p.ie types there, especially those with an interest in arts and/or education.
 

hiker

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May 9, 2005
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As you can see, there has been massive interest shown in this subject by Irelands boldest and brightest. :roll:

Someone should remind them that Fionn MacCumhall would not allow a young warrior into his army unles they could recite poetry, sing songs and play music. :)

Without going too highbrow, there is a great exhibition opening up in Collins Barracks Museam. Its a collection of electric guitars on show that were used by some of Ireland's and indeed, the world's, greatest guitar players.
Rory Gallagher, Phil Lynott, Jimi Hendricks etc are all represented.

Worth a look this weekend. Free of Charge, as usual.
 

eurocrat

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hiker said:
Someone should remind them that Fionn MacCumhall would not allow a young warrior into his army unles they could recite poetry, sing songs and play music. :)
Much like being a national school teacher.
 

hiker

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eurocrat said:
hiker said:
Someone should remind them that Fionn MacCumhall would not allow a young warrior into his army unles they could recite poetry, sing songs and play music. :)
Much like being a national school teacher.
Ah yeah, but can a national school teacher run thru the forest, buck naked and skewer a wild boar on the rampage, without breaking a single twig on the ground? :shock:

Well, huh, huh, huh........
 

tumeltyni

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Oct 10, 2003
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The conference was covered by Artszone on Saturday, you can download it from their website. The relevant section starts 2' 40" into the programme.

I thought Evelyn raised some very good points - how many people in this country can say that music has never touched them in some way? The Forum tries to represent all genres of music (yes rockofcashel, even the bubblegum stuff!)

Local music education is essential. Music Network completed a feasibility study in 2003 on behalf of the Arts Council, as a result of which two pilot projects were set up. These projects were incredibly successful - now we need to roll this out to all local areas.

She highlighted the number of votes there are in music - (nearly) every parent in the country wants their children to have the opportunity to learn music, yet only half the schools in the country offer it as an option in secondary school.

The foundation of the Arts and Education Committee is a very positive step, but the concern is that it will be yet another committee passing up more reports that will then be ignored.

The one area that I think needs more focus is the music industry and its importance to the Irish industry. It was addressed in a conference in DIT Rathmines last year 'The Economic and Social Significance of the Performing Arts', and I'll be pushing for that to be highlighted again at the next plenary.
 

kerrynorth

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1,525
hiker said:
eurocrat said:
hiker said:
Someone should remind them that Fionn MacCumhall would not allow a young warrior into his army unles they could recite poetry, sing songs and play music. :)
Much like being a national school teacher.
Ah yeah, but can a national school teacher run thru the forest, buck and skewer a wild boar on the rampage, without breaking a single twig on the ground? :shock:

Well, huh, huh, huh........
Is it in the contract of employment, is there a safety statement, insurance, and a notice of compliance with Health and Safety Regs. been provided and most importantly has a partnership committee made a benchmarking award for these extraciricular activities that you mention!
 

eurocrat

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hiker said:
Ah yeah, but can a national school teacher run thru the forest, buck naked and skewer a wild boar on the rampage, without breaking a single twig on the ground? :shock:
Thats an optional module on the HDip.
 

tumeltyni

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Oct 10, 2003
Messages
38
Any chance we could actually address the issue of the arts in Ireland? Or are you determined to continue giving sports the priority over them? They're just as important :evil:
 

hiker

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tumeltyni said:
Local music education is essential. Music Network completed a feasibility study in 2003 on behalf of the Arts Council, as a result of which two pilot projects were set up. These projects were incredibly successful - now we need to roll this out to all local areas.
I'm a bit conflicted here. I've had this idea of incorporating into the PD website a shop that would sell Irish music, poetry and other artistic paraphanalia that would ties us into that element of Irish society in the way the Sinn Fein website sells H-Block paraphanalia etc.

but,

I felt a bit dirty trying to piggyback on artistic endevours of others even if the idea was just to promote Irish music and poetry.

Question: Should music or indeed art be intertwined into politics directly? Should we politicise music or art?

I sincerely beleive that politics needs poetry and music. I dont believe that music and poetry needs politics.

As you can see, totally confused :? :shock:
 

popper

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tumeltyni said:
Any chance we could actually address the issue of the arts in Ireland? Or are you determined to continue giving sports the priority over them? They're just as important :evil:

They are not mutually exclusive. Lots of GAA clubs have traditional music sessions and classes and give Ceolthas the use of their club houses. Not too much demand from Baroque ensembles but I am sure they would not be turned away :wink:
 

tumeltyni

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Oct 10, 2003
Messages
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It should definitely be taken seriously within politics, just as seriously as the English/Irish debate is taken. Music does need politics, probably more than poetry to be honest. I mean, poetry is compulsory right up to the age of 18, while half the schools in Ireland don't even give the option of learning music. I know I'm biased, but I do think that every child should have the choice.

You can argue as to whether or not further support should be given after people finish school, but there certainly needs to be more emphasis on its importance within the education system. Which is why it's particularly disillusioning that the Education Dept tries to pass off any discussion of it to the Arts Council. The Arts & Education Committee is, as I said, a good step in the right direction, but forgive me for not being convinced that the Dept of Education will have anything more to do with it.
 

hiker

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tumeltyni said:
It should definitely be taken seriously within politics, just as seriously as the English/Irish debate is taken. Music does need politics, probably more than poetry to be honest. I mean, poetry is compulsory right up to the age of 18, while half the schools in Ireland don't even give the option of learning music. I know I'm biased, but I do think that every child should have the choice.
the big problem with promoting music in school is the idea that there is no money to be made.
Sure a musician is not a "real" job. :roll:

I'm going to get a bit wierd here but music (and poetry) are important for the soul. In order to educate our kids to all aspects of life one must expose them to music (and poetry) early and often.
A man or woman who has no concept of the beauty of art is only half a person.
Stunted and handicapped, they move thru life without any concept of what the meaning of it all is.
Not only do they not know about these things but they are unaware that there is even a conversation going on.

As we become more secure in our economic fortune, I beleive we will begin to explore the arts and their importance in our society.

This thread is proof of this. If I had my way I know where the PDs would be going now. We would champion the finer things in life. the Arts, Heritage, Culture all things that make us better human beings.
 

cyberianpan

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hiker said:
tumeltyni said:
It should definitely be taken seriously within politics, just as seriously as the English/Irish debate is taken. Music does need politics, probably more than poetry to be honest. I mean, poetry is compulsory right up to the age of 18, while half the schools in Ireland don't even give the option of learning music. I know I'm biased, but I do think that every child should have the choice.
the big problem with promoting music in school is the idea that there is no money to be made.
Sure a musician is not a "real" job. :roll:

I'm going to get a bit wierd here but music (and poetry) are important for the soul. In order to educate our kids to all aspects of life one must expose them to music (and poetry) early and often.
A man or woman who has no concept of the beauty of art is only half a person.
Stunted and handicapped, they move thru life without any concept of what the meaning of it all is.
Not only do they not know about these things but they are unaware that there is even a conversation going on.

As we become more secure in our economic fortune, I beleive we will begin to explore the arts and their importance in our society.

This thread is proof of this. If I had my way I know where the PDs would be going now. We would champion the finer things in life. the Arts, Heritage, Culture all things that make us better human beings.
Hmmm I sorta agree.. but... similar arguments could be used to promote religion in politics... Generally I think that political parties ought have a narrow focus & should stay away from cultural matters. A pity...


cYp
 

hiker

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cyberianpan said:
Hmmm I sorta agree.. but... similar arguments could be used to promote religion in politics... Generally I think that political parties ought have a narrow focus & should stay away from cultural matters. A pity...


cYp
Thats the reason why I was a bit conflicted in my earlier post. I do think it would be an interesting experiment though.

Maybe this is the point where lobby groups come in? I'm not a fan of lobbyists but they are effective. I would prefer to have them inside pishing out........
 

cyberianpan

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hiker said:
cyberianpan said:
Hmmm I sorta agree.. but... similar arguments could be used to promote religion in politics... Generally I think that political parties ought have a narrow focus & should stay away from cultural matters. A pity...


cYp
Thats the reason why I was a bit conflicted in my earlier post. I do think it would be an interesting experiment though.

Maybe this is the point where lobby groups come in? I'm not a fan of lobbyists but they are effective. I would prefer to have them inside pishing out........
To my mind this is where the Seanad comes in, currently it is a dumping ground for the senile, failed candidates & a few interesting oddballs. I don't think anything so naff as an Arts Panel is required but I do think we should look at the makeup of this body. Particularly in light of the fall of the Catholic church & increased exposure to foreign cultures. Right now Ireland could do with a bit more soul & spirit.

I think the Seanad ought be actively de-politicised (shoot the b*stards) & given a role above day to day politics. Funny old drunks like Brendan Keneally, perhaps a few religious types, Michael O Suilleabhain etc. Something akin to life peerages...

cYp
 

tumeltyni

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Oct 10, 2003
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hiker said:
the big problem with promoting music in school is the idea that there is no money to be made.
Sure a musician is not a "real" job. :roll:
This is the point. It's just an idea, not the actual fact. I left college with my music degree and straight into three jobs, all music related, and none are in music performance. There are plenty careers for music graduates - arts administration/management, librarianship, sound tech work, not to mention the obvious teaching and performance jobs. Not to mention the communicative skills learned in places like Maynooth where participation in a performing group, be it instrumental or vocal, is a compulsory part of the course, and the levels of concentration and discipline needed to reach a high standard in any instrument. Valuable qualities as far as any employer is concerned.

I'm going to get a bit wierd here but music (and poetry) are important for the soul. In order to educate our kids to all aspects of life one must expose them to music (and poetry) early and often.
Not weird, true. But I don't think it's the argument that we'll ever get politicians to listen to. I think we actually need to get them to look at the economic benefits of the music industry as a whole.

As we become more secure in our economic fortune, I beleive we will begin to explore the arts and their importance in our society.

This thread is proof of this. If I had my way I know where the PDs would be going now. We would champion the finer things in life. the Arts, Heritage, Culture all things that make us better human beings.
So why don't you? Labour have the 'Labour Artists' as part of their party, why can't the PDs champion the arts too? They can start by thinking of ways to encourage philanthropy, that's certainly in line with their policies generally.

David McWilliams wrote an article about this in the Indo there a while back, a disappointing one, missed some of the key points to be made, made the assumption that music = classical = concert halls and the elite but he did make some interesting points:
David McWilliams said:
The American academic Richard Florida has identified a new class he calls the "Creative Class" who work with the creative side of the brain. He believes, and with some compelling evidence, concludes, that the US cities with a high proportion of these types - artists, writers, software engineers, architects, designers and the like - are the cities with the strongest growth rates, the highest standards of living and the most satisfied citizens.

In contrast, cities with a much higher blue-collar population are stagnating and are much more susceptible to competition from the third world, particularly China. The more jobs they lose, the more introspective they become and the more the Creative Class of these cities flees to other much more attractive places where the arts and caf† society are flourishing......

..... The smart successful economies of the next 20 years will be those that foster the right conditions for the creative class to flourish.
Besides, why should the arts be an exclusive thing? Another example of social exclusion that should be addressed in all areas, instead of just in the two places in which the pilot schemes were run. This type of music provision should be available to every family that wants it, and not limited to those who live in cities and those with high incomes.

I recommend taking a look at the feasibility study that was done by Music Network. Must actually take another look at it myself actually, haven't read it in a while. If you're interested in formulating an arts policy for your party hiker, or anyone else for that matter, let me know...

People think there are no votes in music, but they're wrong. The votes are there if you look for them.
 

hiker

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tumeltyni said:
I recommend taking a look at the feasibility study that was done by Music Network. Must actually take another look at it myself actually, haven't read it in a while. If you're interested in formulating an arts policy for your party hiker, or anyone else for that matter, let me know...

People think there are no votes in music, but they're wrong. The votes are there if you look for them.
We should do that tumeltyni, for the craic. :) Why the hell not. I'm a music lover. Hell, I'm half decent on the guitar and you are obviously a music lover too.
Work and personal commitments will prevent me from meeting up often but I'll PM you with my email address and we'll see if we can flesh out an Arts Policy to be proud of. 8)
 

hiker

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tumeltyni said:
Great. Any other takers?
Yeah, we have a National Conferance coming up in february 2007. I'll investigate how I might go about have discussed at the conferance.
 

tumeltyni

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Found the full report online, and here'sthe website for the Donegal pilot scheme set up as a result of it. The idea would be to roll out similar structures in all areas of the country.
 
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