Must the kids of Wojtek & Agnieszka learn Irish/Gaeilge at school ?

Spirit Of Newgrange

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Lets say we have a Polish couple living in North Dublin. In their family home they are speaking Polish. Fair enough. And then their 2 kids are sent out into the world and will learn English at the local creche or Primary school. We hope the kids will get fully bilingual in both languages.

These are a working-class couple who do not have the financial resources to waste on irish language grinds. Nor can we expect them to have the inclination. So the kids do badly at irish at school. Big deal. The parents then discover, to their horror, that a large proportion of University places are off-limits, proscribed. For the sin of their kids not thriving at a language that the parents would be unable to help with homework at the dinner table.

Meanwhile the middle class irish kids at the local gaelschool all get a free pass into a good course at a good university.

How fair is this ?

And it could be worse.
Instead of the parents being Wojtek & Agnieszka from Warsaw, maybe we have Pablo from Madrid married to Magdalena from Gdansk. Both parents insist on speaking their native tongue to the kids, often happens and that is all ok. Kids grow up with 'L1 Spanish' and 'L1 Polish' and then must go out into the big bad world and learn English.



and it could be worse-worse
Osane from the Basque country is married to Matis from Lithuania. Two ancient and noble languages with a rich and valued tradition. Two languages not available on the Leaving Cert, so no bonus-points for free then. The vast majority of world languages will never make it onto the Leaving Cert syllabus. And yet those languages are well represented in the new demographics of parents in this Republic.


Next thing some SF nutter tells them they must learn Irish if they wish to be truly accepted into irish society.

Failure is virtually guaranteed, even if the kids have 1) a genius IQ, 2) a phenomenal work ethic and 3) a commitment to the irish language programme. And having all three is a massive improbability. Its all too onerous. Can anybody else see the madness of the challenge being laid at the feet of this family ?

And to say ''ah but sure these New Irish kids are great at languages so learning irish will be easy for them'' is like saying ''Bruce Lee is good at fighting so its ok if i attack him''. A total hypocrisy. And maybe after beating 3 or 4 fellas, Bruce Lee has no more energy left in the tank to tackle the fifth fella. And Jurgan has no more linguistic slack to pick up in his textbooks.

Meanwhile the kids of Sean and Siobhan ( who inherited their home in D4) breeze into Medicine at UCD cos it was all just a cakewalk.

Discuss.

ps. Perhaps we should allow all the 'new irish' to have a vote on the future educational direction of their kids. Or perhaps TD's could include their own opinions in their election manifesto.

pps. I deliberately started this using a Polish couple to illustrate the ludicrous sectarian rubbish going on in the North. Polish people are Catholic, and they will be forgiven for not warming to a difficult and useless dead language.
 
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silverharp

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fck em :D my kids go to a school where they only start Irish in 5th class. My wife isn't Irish and I specifically told my kids that I would not give them any input for this subject, its up to them to work it out for themselves.
 

hollandia

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Wow. Foreigners. Gaeilge. Middle and Working classes.

Congrats on writing your first loon magnet OP.
 

DJP

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Wow. Foreigners. Gaeilge. Middle and Working classes.

Congrats on writing your first loon magnet OP.
His first? Have a look at his profile to see the other threads he has started! *Shudder*.
 

Mushroom

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Notwithstanding my long-standing opposition to the idea of compulsory Irish after the Junior Cert, I must disagree with the OP.

If such people want to settle in Ireland and to raise their kids here to become eligible for Irish Citizenship (whether or not they wish to take it up), then it's entirely appropriate that they should have to learn Irish like virtually every other pupil in the educational system.

If, down the road, the rules change for everyone, then that's fine, but as things stand, then no exception - apart from the existing one for kids who don't join the Irish educational system until a certain age (12?) - should be made.
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

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Wow. Foreigners. Gaeilge. Middle and Working classes.

Congrats on writing your first loon magnet OP.
Lets talk about inclusivity, fairness and a level playing field for all.

And if a parent is, say Chinese, would you accept that they must bridge a much bigger language gap just to get good English ? To impose Peig on them is tantamount to a crime.
 

Eire1976

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I always thought it was only civil service jobs that were off limits to those who didn't get a pass in Irish.
 

A Voice

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Lets say we have a Polish couple living in North Dublin. In their family home they are speaking Polish. Fair enough. And then their 2 kids are sent out into the world and will learn English at the local creche or Primary school. We hope the kids will get fully bilingual in both languages.

These are a working-class couple who do not have the financial resources to waste on irish language grinds. Nor can we expect them to have the inclination. So the kids do badly at irish at school. Big deal. The parents then discover, to their horror, that a large proportion of University places are off-limits, proscribed. For the sin of their kids not thriving at a language that the parents would be unable to help with homework at the dinner table.

Meanwhile the middle class irish kids at the local gaelschool all get a free pass into a good course at a good university.

How fair is this ?

And it could be worse.
Instead of the parents being Wojtek & Agnieszka from Warsaw, maybe we have Pablo from Madrid married to Magdalena from Gdansk. Both parents insist on speaking their native tongue to the kids. Kids grow up with L1 Spanish and Polish and then must go out into the big bad world and learn English. Next thing some SF nutter tells them they must learn Irish if they wish to be truly accepted into irish society. Failure is virtually guaranteed, even if the kids have 1) a genius IQ, 2) a phenomenal work ethic and 3) a commitment to the irish language programme. And having all three is a massive improbability. Its all too onerous. Can anybody else see the madness of the challenge being laid at the feet of this family ?

Meanwhile the kids of Sean and Siobhan ( who inherited their home in D4) breeze into Medicine at UCD cos it was all just a cakewalk.

Discuss.
:D Try framing your talking points in less hysterically polemical terms and you might get some sensible people to bite.
 

DJP

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I always thought it was only civil service jobs that were off limits to those who didn't get a pass in Irish.
That was a long time ago, I think.
 

Mushroom

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I always thought it was only civil service jobs that were off limits to those who didn't get a pass in Irish.
That ended decades ago. There was a time when teachers and solicitors needed to have passed an Irish exam before they were eligible to 'practice', but I think that's gone now - although Primary School teachers probably still need it.
 

Eire1976

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That ended decades ago. There was a time when teachers and solicitors needed to have passed an Irish exam before they were eligible to 'practice', but I think that's gone now - although Primary School teachers probably still need it.
Should non nationals have their own classes so as not to upset the Irish way of life?
 
D

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Would it be fair for anyone who moves to Sweden to try and mute Swedish just because they don't speak it?
Of course it wouldn't, Swedish is the first language of Sweden and the spoken language in the country, the same cannot be said of Irish.
 

razorblade

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Would it be fair for anyone who moves to Sweden to try and mute Swedish just because they don't speak it?
With the way Sweden is heading it Swedish won't even be the national language within a matter of decades.
 

DJP

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That ended decades ago. There was a time when teachers and solicitors needed to have passed an Irish exam before they were eligible to 'practice', but I think that's gone now - although Primary School teachers probably still need it.
There was even a time pre-mid 1970's (or around then) that everyone who wanted to get a job in the public sector had to pass an Irish language exam. I don't know how hard the exam was. I have even met a couple of Irish speakers over the years who criticised the change in policy.
 

redneck

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Zoo this thread.
 

redneck

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This kind of thread encourages anti immigrant feeling. Look at what happened in the UK. Too many immigrants, and now Brexit.
 

Mushroom

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Should non nationals have their own classes so as not to upset the Irish way of life?
Adults or kids? Compulsory or optional?

Personally speaking, I'd be happier if they learned good English first. A surprising number of them don't have much English.
 


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