Myers tells Brits about Ireland



Pauli

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Hits the nail on the head. FF don't care how they are perceived abroad anyway. Mainly because residents of the UK dont vote in Irish elections, so they are of zero interest to FF
 

Aindriu

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Can't argue with that at all. He has got it dead right. We are the laughing stock of the western world right now and it is going to get much, much worse!

Fianna FAIL, thank you so very much for bringing the country I love to its knees. Thank you for ensuring that for at least the next 20 years the young people of this country will have to go elsewhere to find gainful employment, thus enuring that it is only the old, sick and disabled remain and finally, thank you for ensuring that those who remain will be in debt to the IMF/EU for the rest of their lives!

May you all rot in hell! You are scum!!! :mad:
 

Libero

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Hmmm... an article attempting to explain Ireland's plight that doesn't mention the popular madness of the property bubble? Or the deference to private interests by regulators and the (bought) government?

Ah yes, it's the Daily Express (lifted from the Spectator).

Myers also manages to invent a new three-way distinction for the economy: the private sector (yaaay!), the public sector (boo! hiss!) and the banking sector (huh? wasn't that part of the former?). He might as well have carved out a separate property development and construction sector to further place the private sector on a pedastal, and ignore the inconvenient private sector causes of the boom and bust. But then his readership might not appreciate that home truth.

He also shows his ignorance or agenda by stating falsely that "the bank rescue scheme" was "obligatory under EU law". Perhaps the same explanation lies behind his choice not to mention that it's the EU providing much of the rescue funds for Ireland.

And it's just bizarre of Myers to state that events being examined by Tribunals are "irrelevant historical events". His piece is about Ireland's descent to where it finds itself - how is corruption, especially in planning, irrelevant to that?

Perhaps the real tragedy of Ireland's situation is that is was caused by gross misconduct and recklessness in both the public and private sectors, and that was exacerbated by a class of commentators who prefer to take sides rather than tell it like it is/was. No state folly, port tunnel and Terminal 2 included, comes close to matching the madness of the banking sector, particularly in how it explains Ireland's collapse.

(Also, there are not thousands of ghost estates, the 30% budget deficit really is a once-off figure and Jim McDaid TD is no more part of "the public sector" than is George Osborne MP.)
 

Cruimh

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Myers also manages to invent a new three-way distinction for the economy: the private sector (yaaay!), the public sector (boo! hiss!) and the banking sector (huh? wasn't that part of the former?). He might as well have carved out a separate property development and construction sector to further place the private sector on a pedastal, and ignore the inconvenient private sector causes of the boom and bust. But then his readership might not appreciate that home truth.
Is what he's getting at not that the banking sector has been treated differently to the rest of the private sector ?
 

reknaw

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At the end of the day, what does it matter what view of Ireland is harboured by the dinosaurs who regale themselves daily with the tripe the Express - a rag that still hasn't gotten over the loss of Britain's empire - serves up to them?:roll:

They need and love swill to satisfy their prejudices, and who better to serve it up to them than Kevin Myarse?:roll:

He makes a good living by dishing out nastiness and pandering to the prejudices of the nasty-minded, so let him make a few more bob by putting down the people of Ireland as a whole and picking at the corpse of the country that has given him a better living than he would make elsewhere.:lol::lol::lol:
 

slx

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He's right but it's an oversimplification.

There's corruption and there's also a very large element of believing your own hype. I don't think it's much different to the USA or the UK situation, it's just far worse.

The fact that we are in the Euro also prevents a lot of devaluation etc that could have made life easier.

The fact that our Government are complete idiots and guaranteed the whole banking system from top to bottom does not help either!!
 
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owedtojoy

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He's right but it's an oversimplification.

There's corruption and there's also a very large element of believing your own hype. I don't think it's much different to the USA or the UK situation, it's just far worse.
I agree. You would find similar waste in almost any public service, or in almost any private company. I once worked for a major American corporation, now long since taken over, and many of its excesses in good times are not far from what we saw in Fas e.g. two technicians were sent to the US for "training" and disappeared on the p*ss for two days. They were not disciplined.

However, we do have an "Irish disease" in our political system that FAILED to learn the lesson of the Haughey years and allowed corruption to flourish. Indeed, to be corrupt was held up as being smarter and more cunning that the ordinary guy, and therefore acceptable. "Tribunals" were politicians ways to kick throny issues into touch - even though it meant pouring money down a black hole.

If we do not sort out the disfunction of our political system, it will destroy teh country next time around.
 

slx

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Fianna Fail needs to get a large dose of political reality and moral hazard.

They basically need to lose the election and lose it incredibly severely. They have no sense of that there are consequences for screwing up this badly and they need to be thought a serious political lesson.

Ideally, they should return 0 seats, like what happened in Canada a few years ago!
 

gweedore

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he's mostly right, but to say paisley was right is ************************************************. paisley was a cheerleader of sectarian murder. no one person was as responsible for the troubles as paisley.
as for the rest it's depressingly true. ireland was run by cowboys with a mandate
 

White Rose

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Instead of having a go at the whole public sector, he should have kept his criticisms to the top echelons (he does criticise them to a certain extent)

It's not fair to compare teachers (one had her nose broken yesterday) to top civil servants travelling first class and milking expenses
 

slx

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I think we just have to accept that Fianna Fail and aspects of the public service and the political system are an absolute joke. It's not an "Irish disease", rather it's the fact that we were conned rotten by cheating liars and their buddies in the financial service.

People believed the hype and the spin and the Government kept spinning and spinning and people believed it.

WE WAS HAD!
 

Aspherical123

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he's mostly right, but to say paisley was right is ************************************************. paisley was a cheerleader of sectarian murder. no one person was as responsible for the troubles as paisley.
as for the rest it's depressingly true. ireland was run by cowboys with a mandate
Thats not true, he always condemed all murder.
 

cul de sac

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A rant that's hard to fault given our present state. Things are really at the edge when you can't altogether disagree with his invective. Cowen is pushing the people to the limit, he should be gone by the weekend.
 

adrem

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Factual errors (e.g. there isn't an annual budget deficit of 30% - the annual deficit is currently running at c11.4% and is aimed to be under 10% in 2011).

No comparative analysis - our debt levels are now high but coming off a low base due to correct govt policy of reducing them in the boom years - something England, France, US, etc didn't do

And most importantly (and I would say damningly for a journalist but it has actually become the norm for Irish journalists) massive over simplification - there is no grey it's all black and white. Private Sector = Good, Public Sector = Bad. The fact is there is loads wrong and right with both.

Ultimately a somewhat pointless self serving article from Myers
 

MauriceColgan

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Factual errors (e.g. there isn't an annual budget deficit of 30% - the annual deficit is currently running at c11.4% and is aimed to be under 10% in 2011).

No comparative analysis - our debt levels are now high but coming off a low base due to correct govt policy of reducing them in the boom years - something England, France, US, etc didn't do

And most importantly (and I would say damningly for a journalist but it has actually become the norm for Irish journalists) massive over simplification - there is no grey it's all black and white. Private Sector = Good, Public Sector = Bad. The fact is there is loads wrong and right with both.

Ultimately a somewhat pointless self serving article from Myers
Nice one.
 

slx

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Personally, I think that there are huge problems only with certain aspects of the public sector, and indeed, the private sector where certain people were ripping off and gouging for ridiculous amounts of money.

The banks, which were private sector, were BY FAR AND AWAY the worst managed entities in Ireland.

Aspects of the public sector need to change, but overall, I don't think our public sector is THAT much worse than anywhere else in Europe. In many ways, it's more flexible than a lot of other countries.

There were huge wastes e.g. decentralisation and the duplication between the HSE and Department of Health and there were most definitely unnecessary and undeserved pay increases in many areas. These however, can be reversed if benchmarking is actually applied properly as counterparts in the private sector have seen wage cuts.

I think if you analyze any public service in any country you will find gross waste. I am always very careful about reading anything written about Greece, Spain or Portugal's public service with a very large pinch of salt as tabloid journalists often jump on one problematic area or one anomaly and ignore the fact that the system itself may be quite OK.

The single biggest problem in Ireland is and was property. Effectively what happened was a group of very wealthy speculators i.e. property developers and banks who financed them inflated the prices of property way beyond a sustainable level. This not only destablised the country and put the banks over the edge, it is almost almost singularly responsible for creating high costs across the economy.

Ridiculously high commercial rents, huge mortgages and very expensive property has driven up wages and driven up the cost of living as retailers, wholesalers, service providers of all types have had to pass on these huge overheads to consumers.

Then if you throw in bad planning, again the Government caving in to the "needs" of the "speculative community" you can see where more of the costs and problems come from i.e. unsustainable development that is way too low density and in stupid places has made the provision of services such as telecommunications, transport, power, water, sewage etc very expensive. This is passed on as an increased cost of living coupled with poor quality services, this is particularly noticeable in broadband etc.

Basically, the country was run for the benefit of property developers and speculators, not for the good of the people.

We were completely screwed-over and sadly, the Government (Fianna Fail for the most part) facilitated and cheer led all of this.

Effectively what they have done is transfer wealth from the productive sector, and the younger part of our economy (i.e. those who are mortgaged to the hilt) to the "establishment" and to older people who are sitting on huge nest eggs having sold property.

The money to finance this came from the banks, who idiotically bought into to this model too.

Not only have they spent all of the money they could get out of the economy, they have also leveraged its ability to borrow to the maximum possible and syphoned all of that cash into their grubby property schemes.

We have been utterly milked dry.

On top of that, we have a whole layer of "professionals" and service providers who are charging us way over the odds for shoddy service i.e. healthcare (consultants), dentists, accountants and most notably lawyers.

On top of that, we have astronomical insurance costs which are driven up by these professionals and a legal system which is rather "sue-happy".

Ireland needs to get back to basics, and to deal with all of this bloat.

Basically, the celtic tigre is suffering from a severe dose of worms that are causing massive internal bleeding.

We need a large dose of worming tablets of some sort to flush out the parasites :

FF, banks, cronies, parasitic money grabbing practices across aspects of all sectors etc etc.


I don't think this is a uniquely Irish disease, we just have a rather acute case of it!

Also, our usual worming dose (inflation & devaluation) has been taken off the market by European regulation :)
 

junius

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Hmmm... an article attempting to explain Ireland's plight that doesn't mention the popular madness of the property bubble? Or the deference to private interests by regulators and the (bought) government?

Ah yes, it's the Daily Express (lifted from the Spectator).

Myers also manages to invent a new three-way distinction for the economy: the private sector (yaaay!), the public sector (boo! hiss!) and the banking sector (huh? wasn't that part of the former?). He might as well have carved out a separate property development and construction sector to further place the private sector on a pedastal, and ignore the inconvenient private sector causes of the boom and bust. But then his readership might not appreciate that home truth.

He also shows his ignorance or agenda by stating falsely that "the bank rescue scheme" was "obligatory under EU law". Perhaps the same explanation lies behind his choice not to mention that it's the EU providing much of the rescue funds for Ireland.

And it's just bizarre of Myers to state that events being examined by Tribunals are "irrelevant historical events". His piece is about Ireland's descent to where it finds itself - how is corruption, especially in planning, irrelevant to that?

Perhaps the real tragedy of Ireland's situation is that is was caused by gross misconduct and recklessness in both the public and private sectors, and that was exacerbated by a class of commentators who prefer to take sides rather than tell it like it is/was. No state folly, port tunnel and Terminal 2 included, comes close to matching the madness of the banking sector, particularly in how it explains Ireland's collapse.

(Also, there are not thousands of ghost estates, the 30% budget deficit really is a once-off figure and Jim McDaid TD is no more part of "the public sector" than is George Osborne MP.)
Myers somehow conveniently forgets that corporate tax for the private sector is at an obscenely low 12.5%. He also conveniently 'forgets' that Fianna Fail is STILL desperately trying to 'give away' Ireland's last extremely valuable natural resources to foreigners - SHELL AND CORRIB GAS ARE SITTING ON THE VERGE RAPING US AND THE GOVERNMENT IS ENCOURAGING THEM -- they are the PIMPS!

Why don't we STOP them immediately? I don't understand! We,the people have slowed them down and are still slowing them out. NOTHING is gone yet - THERE IS NO PIPELINE LAID. Why leave it to the good people of North Mayo to stop corruption, deceit and theft instigated by FAHEY, BURKE, AHEARN? Do Irish people not realise that our gas is not YET gone to this corrupt foreign corporate? We, in North Mayo continue on our struggle to stop the CORPORATE TAKEOVER OF IRELAND every day and still, it seems, with little help from the people of Ireland.

Do people not realise that the Irish Government is still trying to give away to foreigners our natural resources worth in the region of €500 BILLION! And, it's NOT GONE! There is NO pipeline, no tunnel - the planning permission applications for these are OPEN - NOW!!

WHY (I cry) is all of Ireland sitting there doing nothing and allowing Fianna Fail to carry on their path of destruction?

DO THE PEOPLE OF IRELAND NOT UNDERSTAND? I COULD WEEP !!
 


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