NAMA - a stunning success.

Wascurito

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Eight years on from having well over 300 unfinished (or "ghost") housing estates on its books, NAMA has just six remaining, it was revealed today.

Last year, it redeemed the last tranche of government-guaranteed senior debt. That was three years ahead of schedule.

Meanwhile, the agency also raised its projected lifetime surplus to €3.5 million, an increase of €500 million compared to last year.

NAMA has since been given new roles by the Government, including the construction of 20,000 homes on land it controls and building a new business district in Dublin's docklands.

RTÉ News: NAMA raises forecast surplus up to €3.5 billion
 


RodShaft

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Eight years on from having well over 300 unfinished (or "ghost") housing estates on its books, NAMA has just six remaining, it was revealed today.

Last year, it redeemed the last tranche of government-guaranteed senior debt. That was three years ahead of schedule.

Meanwhile, the agency also raised its projected lifetime surplus to €3.5 million, an increase of €500 million compared to last year.

NAMA has since been given new roles by the Government, including the construction of 20,000 homes on land it controls and building a new business district in Dublin's docklands.

RTÉ News: NAMA raises forecast surplus up to €3.5 billion
Eh. If I gave you a €50 note for a tenner I bet you could make a 'profit' by selling it for €30 too!
 

enuffisenuff

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a success for who?
 

sic transit

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a success for who?
A functioning banking system and ultimately the Exchequer, in other words YOU! Would like to see it used for debt cleardown and the rainy day fund.
 

sic transit

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Eh. If I gave you a €50 note for a tenner I bet you could make a 'profit' by selling it for €30 too!
That sounds like a scam email!
 

sic transit

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A lot of crooks did very well out of that scam.
Name some, bearing in mind that "crook" requires actual conviction and not that loose p.ie phrase of anyone you want to blame.
 

SPN

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Might be a good time to look back at what was being said on P.ie when NAMA was being set up in 2009.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/90400-nama-does-any-independent-irish-commentator-note-defend.html

Maybe SVB should provide an alternative plan of action.


I am getting very fckng pssd off with all these people who criticise the only plan on the table, but refuse to put forward a plan of their own.


We know what the Government Plan is.

We know what the FG Plan is.

We know what the Labour Plan is.


All of them involve quarantining the Property Development Loans, as per the Swedish model.


If someone has a better plan, then lets fcking hear it! Lets debate it. Lets get a political party to support it.

This isn't rocket science people!
1. Goverment calculates current market value for each loan.

2. Goverment pays the banks 50% of market value for the loans. A real discount not some imaginary to book value.

3. Existing bank shareholders are wiped out. In return for the deep discount they get shares in NAMA.

4. Debt for equity swap with bank bondholders to recapitalise the banks.
That is pretty close to what is going to happen under NAMA.




http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/99072-lets-not-wreck-nama-our-lust-revenge.html

But even if NAMA is the solution, FF are not the people to initiate it.

to put it in short they are corrupt, nepotistic, bought and paid for by the developers and cronys in banking.

this is the most important thing to be done by any government here in 80 years, but this may be the worst government in 80 years.

83% of the people agree they should get their damn dirty claws off any solution before they screw it up or worse corrupt it for their masters.
Hence my repeated suggestion that Fine Gael and Labour would be of more use to the people if they put their minds to making sure NAMA is set up properly instead of waffling on about half baked solutions that are not capable of solving the problem.

.
But the problem is that FF will be unwilling to move on the biggest problem with NAMA. And that is playing LTEV.

If we paid market value everything else flows from there.
The only money we throw into Anglo is to fund the repayment of short term borrowings as and when they fall due. This is primarily a cashflow exercise caused by the way they did their funding in the past. Hopefully NAMA will resolve most of this.



I think you are predicating your statement on the myth that NAMA will make excessive payments for the loan books.

I can assure you that this will not happen!



My preference has always been to see the setting up of new, Mutually Owned, Banks and Building Societies. Unfortunately we are not in a position to do that right now.

.
What do you think would be a fair payment SPN?

€30 Billion to €40 Billion.

.

For the full €90bn in loans or for the first tranche they will purchase this year?

From what BL was saying tonight I think they are looking to pay €60bn++ but if I am wrong and they only pay €30bn I will fully support NAMA.

Do you think the GP will support a payment above this?

BL never said anything about €60Bn tonight. Mark Little said €60Bn and Lenihan said that was wide of the mark.


We won't know what the final figure is until Sept 16th. To announce it in advance would cause mayhem on the Stock Markets, as Lenihan made clear tonight.


The GP membership will be hard pushed to accept €30Bn. Anything over 42Bn will be a complete no no.

.


Because the GP and FF decided to nationalise Anglo in January 2009 and run it as a going concern.

The same GP ministers agreed in December 2008 to "invest" in preference shares in Anglo Irish Bank in spite of the fact that FG had already very publicly said that Anglo should be wound up in an orderly fashion, a process that would not have included putting a cent of equity into Anglo.

So the equity was put in because your party decided to put it in.
But I suppose ye probably saved a few exo-planets at the same time.

And now you want to shove NAMA down our throat.
I meant, what was the specific event that required/prompted the investment.



Anglo is being wound up in an orderly fashion.

And it will still require more capital to be put in to roll-over lending in the short term.




This coming from someone whose Party proposed to ban diesel in 2015 :shock:



Not at all.

I want you to get your Party colleagues to support sensible amendments to the NAMA legislation - amendments that will make it more palatable for you to live with when you get into Government.

The NRB Dream Bank does not work. Grow up and start behaving like Statesmen. It is bad enough to have Labour trotting out unworkable clichéd solutions without you f**kers playing silly beggars too.

.
 

leftsoc

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Eh. If I gave you a €50 note for a tenner I bet you could make a 'profit' by selling it for €30 too!
Exactly. There is no more to be said on it beyond that.

Surely NAMA said it was going after shysters for 100% of debt not the 30% it bought everything at? It reneged on that quickly and without any public discussion, even when Crosby the Point let the cat out of the bag on the Late Late Show (I wonder if that was why NAMA turned on him after?). If NAMA had done its job none of these 'developers' would still be in business? But they all seem to be. And nobody bats an eyelid. There was no need to 'save' these people. They have nothing to contribute. Anyone can run a business into the ground, the skill is making a profit and surviving as a going concern, not in buying champagne with taxpayer's money.
 
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Wascurito

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The Taxpayers.
Who on their behalf I would like to take this opportunity to say, Thank you all in NAMA. well done.
Not even the Swedish "bad bank" (the supposed model) did as good a job.

"The example of Sweden’s widely admired bad bank in the 1990s is even less encouraging. [...]Judged by its overall impact the Swedish bad bank was a success: growth bounced back quite quickly. But the cost to taxpayers was high. Sweden paid about 4% of its GDP to bail out its financial system, yet got back only about half of that from selling off loans and stakes in banks."

https://www.economist.com/node/21562231
 

paulp

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Eh. If I gave you a €50 note for a tenner I bet you could make a 'profit' by selling it for €30 too!
Well, you should think twice before you give away €50 notes for a tenner.
Just like the banks should have thought twice before giving out all the ridiculous loans they gave out.
 

leftsoc

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Name some, bearing in mind that "crook" requires actual conviction and not that loose p.ie phrase of anyone you want to blame.
No, a murderer is a murderer and a crook is a crook whether he is convicted or not, it is the crime that defines a criminal not the lily-livered Gardai, DPP or Departments of Justice or Finance.
 

leftsoc

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Not even the Swedish "bad bank" (the supposed model) did as good a job.

"The example of Sweden’s widely admired bad bank in the 1990s is even less encouraging. [...]Judged by its overall impact the Swedish bad bank was a success: growth bounced back quite quickly. But the cost to taxpayers was high. Sweden paid about 4% of its GDP to bail out its financial system, yet got back only about half of that from selling off loans and stakes in banks."

https://www.economist.com/node/21562231
I think you'll find NAMA only got a third back, if even that.
 

sic transit

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Exactly. There is no more to be said on it beyond that.

Surely NAMA said it was going after shysters for 100% of debt not the 30% it bought everything at? If NAMA had done its job none of these 'developers' would still be in business? But they all seem to be. And nobody bats an eyelid. There was no need to 'save' these people. They have nothing to contribute. Anyone can run a business into the ground, the skill is making a profit and surviving as a going concern, not in buying champagne with taxpayer's money.
Hmm, still people who have no idea how NAMA worked with developers. Developers were given the option to work with NAMA, and had to offer up business plans. Some of them were not worth the paper they were written on and NAMA called in their loans and they folded, others did and some ere still around. Only Paddy McKillen was successful in escaping from NAMA.
 

Sweet Darling

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Exactly. There is no more to be said on it beyond that.

Surely NAMA said it was going after shysters for 100% of debt not the 30% it bought everything at? If NAMA had done its job none of these 'developers' would still be in business? But they all seem to be. And nobody bats an eyelid. There was no need to 'save' these people. They have nothing to contribute. Anyone can run a business into the ground, the skill is making a profit and surviving as a going concern, not in buying champagne with taxpayer's money.
Developers like mick Wallace????? He's to busy hiding his fortune from the People.
Yes there was a reason to save them these are the people who have the skills to build.
Other wise all that's left are lazy Corpo workers.
Leave rebuilding the economy to the grown ups, ya?
 

SPN

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Exactly. There is no more to be said on it beyond that.

Surely NAMA said it was going after shysters for 100% of debt not the 30% it bought everything at?
It did go after them for 100%.


If NAMA had done its job none of these 'developers' would still be in business? But they all seem to be. And nobody bats an eyelid.
The vast majority of them went bankrupt. Some lost their lives.

A small few were able to come up with workable plans to pay down their debt.



There was no need to 'save' these people. They have nothing to contribute. Anyone can run a business into the ground, the skill is making a profit and surviving as a going concern, not in buying champagne with taxpayer's money.
What are you on about?

NAMA was about realising the losses on the banks, quickly and efficiently.

It did that.

Nobody was "saved".
 

sic transit

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No, a murderer is a murderer and a crook is a crook whether he is convicted or not, it is the crime that defines a criminal not the lily-livered Gardai, DPP or Departments of Justice or Finance.
Just as well you're an anonymous, "angry" internet poster and not in the justice business. Lots of people would not be breathing!
 

paulp

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Exactly. There is no more to be said on it beyond that.

Surely NAMA said it was going after shysters for 100% of debt not the 30% it bought everything at? If NAMA had done its job none of these 'developers' would still be in business? But they all seem to be. And nobody bats an eyelid. There was no need to 'save' these people. They have nothing to contribute. Anyone can run a business into the ground, the skill is making a profit and surviving as a going concern, not in buying champagne with taxpayer's money.
weren't a 100 odd of them declared bankrupt?
 


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