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NAMA - Harney says it could break even....




MsAnneThrope

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Apr 8, 2009
Messages
1,812
Thank you. Excellent articles. But very worrying. If Whelan and Lucey are right then we're getting a royal shafting, and so are future generations. The poster "Garry" summed it up nicely:

Expecting NAMA to ever do anything other than lose billions is delusional or dishonest.

NAMA is being forced to
1) pay way over the odds for crap it doesn’t want
2) deal with people and banks who have in many cases committed fraud, in the rest been less than honest
3) borrow money in an environment where noone wants to lend
4) sell property in an environment where nobody wants to buy…
5) All with the invisible hand of the politicians lobbying on behalf of their favourite crooks and hard cases

And it is seriously suggested they can make the thing break even?

Pull the other one.
My sentiments exactly.
 

DCon

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May 5, 2009
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5,901
Whatever Harney says must be true. The woman is a Saint. We are lucky she decided to join Politics and better tha Nation.
 

hopi watcher

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Whatever Harney says must be true. The woman is a Saint. We are lucky she decided to join Politics and better tha Nation.
And the fact that TB and other contagiuos diseases are likely to sweep the nation again due to the dismantling of our health service will serve to reduce the population, and particulary those from the lower orders that might require some help to get by, thereby speeding up the recovery process. We were indeed blessed the day she was born!!!
 

Benz

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Jul 14, 2008
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A set of interersting discussions on the Irisheconomy.ie site relate to the discussion by Harney on The Week in Politics last sunday. She claimed that NAMA could break even. General consensus is not.
See The Irish Economy Blog Archive More Bad Signs on NAMA and also see True Economics: NAMA Costs: in full detail
She's right. NAMA could break even.

And the sun may not rise tomorrow either. But, guess what? It probably bloody will.

Sounds to me like she's taken up writing horoscopes since in my universe the future is unknown. Lenihan said it worse though a few months back when he said something along the lines of the State was making an investment in the banks with a guaranteed return. There is no such thing as a guaranteed return, anyone who works in finance will tell you that.

There is always risk, particularly at the level that these guys are supposed to be operating.
 

121.5

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Messages
74
NAMA to break even says Harney?

How?

Maybe if it started selling burgers and if they won the Harney burger supply contract.....
 

SPN

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Feb 2, 2004
Messages
16,895
The biggest problem with all these posts is that the authors clearly don't understand what NAMA is, what its purpose is, and how it will function.


Let me state it as concisely as possible: The Banks borrowed short term money to finance long term development projects. They assumed they would be able to roll-over the loans as and when necessary, and that the market would remain liquid.

Today we are in a different paradigm; The market is no longer liquid. They can't roll over their loans, and the values of the "assets" in an illiquid market are hammering seven kinds of shyte out of their Balance Sheets.


NAMA is a long term property development vehicle. It will borrow long term to fund long term.

It will take the "assets" off the Banks' Balance Sheets, allowing them to straighten themselves out and get back into the business they were supposed to be in.


All this hysteria about the "values" that the paper will be transferred at is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what amount NAMA "pays" because it is all a paper trail exercise to straighten out the Banks Balance Sheets. It is a backstop to prevent the Banking system collapsing due to the current global problems with liquidity.

The only issue we should be discussing is whether the taxpayer has enough exposure to the upside.
 
Joined
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The biggest problem with all these posts is that the authors clearly don't understand what NAMA is, what its purpose is, and how it will function.


Let me state it as concisely as possible: The Banks borrowed short term money to finance long term development projects. They assumed they would be able to roll-over the loans as and when necessary, and that the market would remain liquid.

Today we are in a different paradigm; The market is no longer liquid. They can't roll over their loans, and the values of the "assets" in an illiquid market are hammering seven kinds of shyte out of their Balance Sheets.


NAMA is a long term property development vehicle. It will borrow long term to fund long term.

It will take the "assets" off the Banks' Balance Sheets, allowing them to straighten themselves out and get back into the business they were supposed to be in.


All this hysteria about the "values" that the paper will be transferred at is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what amount NAMA "pays" because it is all a paper trail exercise to straighten out the Banks Balance Sheets. It is a backstop to prevent the Banking system collapsing due to the current global problems with liquidity.

The only issue we should be discussing is whether the taxpayer has enough exposure to the upside.
Good post

What some posters overlook is the land bank that NAMA will gain and the possibilty in certain cases that it will add much more by being able to influence longer term residential and commercial development proposals across the countryside.
 
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we know exactly what NAMA is, as do nunerous economists, other experts and the government. Get your facts straight, ignorance is no excuse.
Bwhahaha Numerous Economists never agree what day of the week it is so expecting to agree on NAMA is foolish.
 

SPN

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What some posters overlook is the land bank that NAMA will gain and the possibilty in certain cases that it will add much more by being able to influence longer term residential and commercial development proposals across the countryside.
And they ignore the effects that Quantitative Easing is going to have on property values, which will become apparent in Q1 2010.
 

blucey

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366
Odie, Spn : have you actually read what Whelan, Lucey, Gurdgiv, Fitzgerald etc have written and said on this? I think they understand the issues at least as well as posters here and they come up with some pretty unpleasant conculsions....?
 

blucey

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Bwhahaha Numerous Economists never agree what day of the week it is so expecting to agree on NAMA is foolish.
So name ONE economist outside government circles that supports NAMA? Just one....(note : support as in not accepting we are lumped with it , support as in "this is THE way to go")
 

SPN

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Odie, Spn : have you actually read what Whelan, Lucey, Gurdgiv, Fitzgerald etc have written and said on this? I think they understand the issues at least as well as posters here and they come up with some pretty unpleasant conculsions....?
This is the Interwebs. Please provide links to the articles you are referring to.
 
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And they ignore the effects that Quantitative Easing is going to have on property values, which will become apparent in Q1 2010.
UK property market was in freefall from last summer onwards and buyers deserted the market from Sept onwards as lending effectively ceased.

UK Govt has pumped billions into economy on back on QE and the rate of decline in property prices over last couple of months has been noticeable.

Situation now seems to be is that Property prices went up slightly in May BUT Royal Institute of Chartered Surveryors are reporting on average they are seeing prices stabilise or move upwards. These are the people who saw the house price declines first.

There is a lag effect in that sellers are not putting properties onto the market as its still a buyers market, lending is slow but number of new buyers has increased significantly.

As a result properties are receiving multiple bids at or around asking price which over the summer will see some price inflation return.

Its the availability of funds that is holding back the market BUT that will change.

Lenders looking at fixed rates 12 times higher than base rate so that will also change.
 

SPN

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So name ONE economist outside government circles that supports NAMA? Just one....(note : support as in not accepting we are lumped with it , support as in "this is THE way to go")
Who gives a flying f*kk what any economist thinks? NAMA is about real world solutions to real world problems, not the half ar$ed, ideologically driven, voodoo-esque gobbledygook those clowns spout.

Can you name one credible alternative to NAMA (particularly one that isn't just NAMA by a different name).
 

SPN

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bm42

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Jun 15, 2004
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In other things that could happen, Mary Harney could win the Rose of Tralee, but we all know it's a very unrealistic prospect.
 

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