Nama: In profit



johnfás

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Could be worse news I suppose. But NAMA has to make about 30 billion profit if the overall figure is to break even.
 

dizillusioned

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yep NAMA can be in profit, the property market shows signs of going up.... all figures..

Whats the oldest joke about accountants?... "what's one and one?"... the accountant says.."what do you want it to be?"
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Its on paper only. Use mark to market values on its rotten portfolio, the losses would be horrific.
 

DCon

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And remember, NAMA will claim to be in profit but this does not mean the State will be.

NAMA's profit figures will be based on the "assets" they acquired at a discount.

The State has shovelled the difference into the banks, on behalf of the Developers
 

daveL

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Who doesn't love accounting?

Especially when it's an arm of the state
 

Neutron

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The first thing I thought when I read this yesterday is whats been fiddled now.

Its all spin and bluster, because if we were creating all these jobs, if Nama was in Profit, if the country was growing we would actually see this in the overall figures.

As it is we are just as fuked today as we were last year.
 

Howya

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Could be worse news I suppose. But NAMA has to make about 30 billion profit if the overall figure is to break even.
Hmm, no. Nama only has to generate 30bn from selling its loan/underlying assets to breakeven against the price it paid ofr the loans. it needs to make a much smaller profit number to cover operating costs. If it did make 30bn profit then it would have recovered all the value lost when forcing the discount on the banks and that is never going to happen. I think the original estimate was a 10bn profit on the written down value of the loans but that has subsequently been re-estimated to zero.
 

Diawlbach

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Its on paper only. Use mark to market values on its rotten portfolio, the losses would be horrific.
From the link:

The total value of Nama's loan book at the end of June was €24.8 billion. That includes €7.9 billion in cash received from debtors and generated through property sales but also takes account of the €2.9 billion writedown in the value of the loans.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but what more definitive marking to market on the properties sold than actually selling them...?
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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From the link:



Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but what more definitive marking to market on the properties sold than actually selling them...?
So after 2 years of acquiring a property portfolio at 70% discount, it has sold less than a quarter of that portfolio and you think that they are fantastic?

What remains in the rest of the 75%? Does it tally with real property or is it infested with multiple mortgages scams? If you were to put its entire property portfolio up on e-bay today, would your beloved NAMA still be profitable?

BTW - The original portfolio was €31.5 Billion. That €7.9 Billion is not included in the €24.8 Billion current balance. Please do try to source the original report before adapting the pretense of knowledge.
 

Fractional Reserve

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Indeed and like anything all the pretty good stuff sells off first and the rubbish will be hard to sell down the line
So after 2 years of acquiring a property portfolio at 70% discount, it has sold less than a quarter of that portfolio and you think that they are fantastic?

What remains in the rest of the 75%? Does it tally with real property or is it infested with multiple mortgages scams? If you were to put its entire property portfolio up on e-bay today, would your beloved NAMA still be profitable?

BTW - The original portfolio was €31.5 Billion. That €7.9 Billion is not included in the €24.8 Billion current balance. Please do try to source the original report before adapting the pretense of knowledge.
 

Man or Mouse

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Indeed and like anything all the pretty good stuff sells off first and the rubbish will be hard to sell down the line
Not alone that, but there is also a bit of a rush for the good stuff as the insiders get to know of what's on offer at knock down prices, further skewing the pace of disposal of the overall package.
 

Howya

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And Nama includes in its calculation of income an element to include their estimate of profit on sale of the underlying asset/loan which is bizarre to say the least. IMO if ain't cash in the hand then it ain't income.

NAMA
 

Ribeye

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I assume I don't need to articulate my views on this!
 

sauntersplash

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Isn't NAMA pretty much just propping up useless property value at an artificial level though?

I wouldn't have that was ever going to be particularly useful for the citizens of Ireland.
 
G

Gimpanzee

Isn't NAMA pretty much just propping up useless property value at an artificial level though?
If you mean by not dumping its entire portfolio on the market right now and 'lettign the market do its job' then yes. But to subscribe to that theory you have to be mad.

In reality NAMA can't and doesn't succeed or try to prop up the market. It is just the warped way that vengance-seeking crazies around here want to see things.


I wouldn't have that was ever going to be particularly useful for the citizens of Ireland.
The biggest problem with NAMA was that it was designed to do one thing, then in the length of time it took to set up it was tasked with a totally different job with a far bigger scope.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Surely for NAMA to be in profit they've taken property from the state bailed banks (tax payers money) at less than it was worth and flogged it on to someone with the list of what they paid for it, thanks to its colander like security, plus a "tip" to pay salaries and bonus.

The only people who gain are NAMA employees and it's all funded by the tax payer who bailed out the banks they underpaid in the first place.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Isn't NAMA pretty much just propping up useless property value at an artificial level though?

I wouldn't have that was ever going to be particularly useful for the citizens of Ireland.
Nama's justification for that is that it's "protecting" Irish assets from foreign asset strippers with deep pockets, so that when property values recover all the profit won't go abroad.

Personally I don't buy that - I prefer the conspiracy theory that as long as Nama exists 100s of people will earn big bucks at tax-payers expense doing the work the banks were supposed to ave been doing at their own expense 5 years ago.
 


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