National Broadband - is this amazing leadership, electioneering or a corrupt waste of tax - what do you think?

The NBP as is currently proposed looks like a bad deal for the tax payers

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 73.5%
  • No

    Votes: 9 26.5%

  • Total voters
    34

Northsideman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
10,344
But if that potential exists, other bidders would be in already, trying to get the contract from the state in order to do precisely what you're suggesting - and they could tender lower than Granaham McCourt, while still, by your logic, making a healthy profit.
So why isn't that happening?
I'm not suggesting anything I'm asking the question will there be a clause in the contract to prevent it being flipped at a profit? There should be.
 


wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
35,104

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
35,104
itll attract footfall to dun laoghaire which in turn will help the local businesses and it wont cost anything like 5bn or enrich people who don't have kitchens.

a more apt comparator would be the lexicon
Have you been in the Lexicon lately? its incredibly busy, mostly women bringing children to the children's section and students using laptops rather than people browsing or borrowing books.
 

artfoley56

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
10,073
Have you been in the Lexicon lately? its incredibly busy, mostly women bringing children to the children's section and students using laptops rather than people browsing or borrowing books.
oh I know its busy, the point being it cost 37m, and there was a lovely little library at the bottom of georges st that could've been upgraded.
 

riddles

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
318
They could run fibre to these former Coilte sites and then bounce the singles around.
Get communities interested to support the implementation of masts. Anyone who wants can get broadband - okay it may be poor quality and expensive but I think 3bn for people stream Netflix and the like is just nonsense. Like metro North nice to have nonsense. All this nonsense about a jobs boom in rural communities with the arrival of broadband is laughable. I live in a town with extremely high broadband speeds and a decent proximity to Dublin airport. There hasn't been serious jobs creation in the 18 years I have lived here.

It's not amusing when you get your pay slip and you see how much goes in tax. Absolutely zero return on the tax and money squandered left right and centre. On the flip side it just speeds up our journey to next financial collapse. We will have 2 to 1 the ratio of tax payers to non TP in about 30 years - its 5-1 at the moment and look how stoney broke we are. We do great Ostriech stuff here. Everyone should get a free house and high speed broadband in it. Can't pay your debts don't worry write them off and Joe public will pick up the tab. D'ont fancy a job - no hassle we can feed, house and clothe you from cradle grave with zero expectation in return.

14 million a day interest payments. The CSO’s Government Finance Statistics report shows government debt rose to €206 billion last year, up from €201 billion in 2017, and remains one of the highest per-capita debt burdens in Europe.
 
Last edited:

Orbit v2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
12,350
Thats not what you said though, you said it worked everywhere. It doesn't.
It can be made to work everywhere. That is a fact.
If it did, this plan wouldnt include an element of wireless for the last 5-10% and you know what, like the spend on this that figure will grow.. That's not solely down to cost either,.
You can't even guarantee that all of the last 5-10% can be covered by wireless. If they are down a big coverage hole, then NOTHING will bring a radio signal to them.
As regards, trees and ducts being "little problems". Thats way off the mark, if you knew the expense people have to go to to get a duct unblocked, a collapsed duct replaced or to get rid of big trees where its OTA....and thats in areas where fibre is viable..
I know exactly what is involved as I had to do it myself. I considered installing a new duct but instead cut down a small tree to bring it in OTA. You can barely see the cable it's so thin and means I can now get rid of the existing copper cables for the multiple POTS lines I had.
When you get to dedicated business connections its even worse..the civils can be extensive and expensive.
If people want it they will pay. I've never heard of anyone who wanted high speed broadband and who has fibre at their gate, complaining about the cost. If they don't want it they can continue with wireless dongles, until they decide they do.
However, It will always be short range which is why it needs so many access points, but it doesnt need big masts everywhere either like is being touted. It is unproven, just like low orbit sattelite but to say there is nothing being tested or on the horizon to replace or compete with fibre is just plain wrong.
Then, tell me what is on the horizon to replace or compete with fibre?
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
35,104
Then, tell me what is on the horizon to replace or compete with fibre?
Since the horizon can be seen, there is nothing currently visible to compete with fibre. Its fair enough to argue about cost or whether people in rural Ireland need fibre but its not correct to claim that there are magic technologies available as an alternative.
 

Baron von Biffo

Moderator
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
18,093
They could run fibre to these former Coilte sites and then bounce the singles around.
Get communities interested to support the implementation of masts.
[...]

Why do we never hear demands for Dublin communities to fund the various infrastructural projects they benefit from?

It's not amusing when you get your pay slip and you see how much goes in tax. Absolutely zero return on the tax and money squandered left right and centre.

[...]
Now inagine what it's like for those who live outside Dublin. They pay the same taxes as the Dubs and they watch as those taxes are spent in the Capital while the few remaining public services in their own areas are withdrawn or downgraded.
 

riddles

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
318
[...]

Why do we never hear demands for Dublin communities to fund the various infrastructural projects they benefit from?



Now inagine what it's like for those who live outside Dublin. They pay the same taxes as the Dubs and they watch as those taxes are spent in the Capital while the few remaining public services in their own areas are withdrawn or downgraded.
It’s not economically viable to hook up every house for mains water and sewage but it is a requirement to deliver broadband? There are examples of communities who got together to set it up. If you decide to live somewhere you have to be prepared for trade off’s.
 

Baron von Biffo

Moderator
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
18,093
It’s not economically viable to hook up every house for mains water and sewage but it is a requirement to deliver broadband? There are examples of communities who got together to set it up. If you decide to live somewhere you have to be prepared for trade off’s.
Are the Luas, Dart and Dublin bus economically viable without public monies?
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
35,104
Are the Luas, Dart and Dublin bus economically viable without public monies?
The reason we have public services is because they are not economically attractive to the private sector. We have been brainwashed by media talking heads into thinking that everything can be measured in terms of cost. The classic example is Ardnacrusha which would never have happened if it had been judged on a strict cost/benefit study.
 

ON THE ONE ROAD

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
4,685
It’s not economically viable to hook up every house for mains water and sewage but it is a requirement to deliver broadband? There are examples of communities who got together to set it up. If you decide to live somewhere you have to be prepared for trade off’s.

An area with out decent Internet may as well be a black hole.

What is the cost to the state of any business in those areas failing to compete with others better connected with buyers and suppliers.

How is new business attracted to those areas

If Britain or France or anywhere get this done before us how does our agricultural industry compete with impoved farming methods in other jurisdictions.
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
16,606
The whole discussion about broadband has two dimensions:

1 - is it appropriate to spend tax payers money to ensure every citizen can access the internet and

2 - is the proposed commercial model appropriate

What's interesting is that FG are ONLY discussing #1 - positioning themselves as the magnanimous government willing to fork out the cash to provide broadband to boggers...they're frantically trying to ignore any question about #2 as if their bizarre model of paying for a €5bn asset and then handing it over to a private enterprise who only needs to invest €200m cash and borrow €2bn is a good deal.

Few people are against #1, but I believe many people see #2 for the insane use of tax payers money it is.
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
35,104
they're frantically trying to ignore any question about #2 as if their bizarre model of paying for a €5bn asset and then handing it over to a private enterprise who only needs to invest €200m cash and borrow €2bn is a good deal.

Few people are against #1, but I believe many people see #2 for the insane use of tax payers money it is.
They haven't ignored it, they are saying that its the best way of achieving their aim of providing universal access. I think quite a few are against the idea of the state being involved in building the network but no politician to date has said so, maybe closer to the election Lord Ross will decide its not needed in Stepaside and oppose it?
 

Baron von Biffo

Moderator
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
18,093
The reason we have public services is because they are not economically attractive to the private sector. We have been brainwashed by media talking heads into thinking that everything can be measured in terms of cost. The classic example is Ardnacrusha which would never have happened if it had been judged on a strict cost/benefit study.
Quite. It's the difference between government and management.
 

Baron von Biffo

Moderator
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
18,093
The whole discussion about broadband has two dimensions:

1 - is it appropriate to spend tax payers money to ensure every citizen can access the internet and

2 - is the proposed commercial model appropriate

What's interesting is that FG are ONLY discussing #1 - positioning themselves as the magnanimous government willing to fork out the cash to provide broadband to boggers...they're frantically trying to ignore any question about #2 as if their bizarre model of paying for a €5bn asset and then handing it over to a private enterprise who only needs to invest €200m cash and borrow €2bn is a good deal.

Few people are against #1, but I believe many people see #2 for the insane use of tax payers money it is.
Would you favour granting 'boggers' an exemption on all taxes?
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
50,487
And not to mention the awarding of the mobile phone licence. It proves that FG just isn't to be trusted.
What was wrong with the award of the mobile phone licence? Was it awarded to an inferior bid? Did Moriarty find that?
 

Round tower

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
8,524
The whole discussion about broadband has two dimensions:

1 - is it appropriate to spend tax payers money to ensure every citizen can access the internet and

2 - is the proposed commercial model appropriate

What's interesting is that FG are ONLY discussing #1 - positioning themselves as the magnanimous government willing to fork out the cash to provide broadband to boggers...they're frantically trying to ignore any question about #2 as if their bizarre model of paying for a €5bn asset and then handing it over to a private enterprise who only needs to invest €200m cash and borrow €2bn is a good deal.

Few people are against #1, but I believe many people see #2 for the insane use of tax payers money it is.
What about the billions over the years spent providing waater and sewage to the Jackeens which people in rurel aareas has to provide for themselves
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top Bottom