Nature abhors a vacuum.... Chinese aquistions around Lake Baikal.

Nebuchadnezzar

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This area along the borderlands with Mongolia is sparely populated and economically undeveloped. It was Chinese territory during the Han Dynasty. The local population are becoming increasingly agitated by Chinese investors who are buying up many of the lake shore properties and within the town of Listvyanka near Irkutsk. An online petition has already gathered 55,000 signatures(population of Listvyanka is only 2,000) calling on the Russian Govt to block any further Chinese acquisitions.

The people are in a panic! The authorities are inactive, we will continue to lose our underbelly! Our property! We have let the goat into the garden.


This local concern reflects a far wider concern amongst Russians that their eastern territories are vulnerable to a gradual Chinese take over. Is the strategic partnership between Russia and China at serious risk of breaking down as the movement of Chinese money and people into these areas stokes up local resentment and fear of a creeping take over?

Ref FT, 6 Jan, page 4.
 


Mick Mac

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This area along the borderlands with Mongolia is sparely populated and economically undeveloped. It was Chinese territory during the Han Dynasty. The local population are becoming increasingly agitated by Chinese investors who are buying up many of the lake shore properties and within the town of Listvyanka near Irkutsk. An online petition has already gathered 55,000 signatures(population of Listvyanka is only 2,000) calling on the Russian Govt to block any further Chinese acquisitions.



This local concern reflects a far wider concern amongst Russians that their eastern territories are vulnerable to a gradual Chinese take over. Is the strategic partnership between Russia and China at serious risk of breaking down as the movement of Chinese money and people into these areas stokes up local resentment and fear of a creeping take over?

Ref FT, 6 Jan, page 4.
It looks like the area is about to become more culturally diverse.

I'd suspect having a few local newspapers run reports about the wonderful spirit of the new arrivals and how everyone feels so happy all the time won't be enough to persuade the Russians that it's not expansion and economically aggressive.
 

gerhard dengler

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I remember seeing a programme about a guy travelling in China/Russia area, and about how the border between both countries is essentially porous in the more rural regions and how people in that region move freely between both territories.

As I write I can't recall the name of the programme.
 

parentheses

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I'm sure it's wishful thinking for westerners that a wedge can be driven between Russia and China.

Arguably the point that America won the cold war was when the USSR and China fell out bitterly in the 1960s.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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I'm sure it's wishful thinking for westerners that a wedge can be driven between Russia and China.

Arguably the point that America won the cold war was when the USSR and China fell out bitterly in the 1960s.
I don’t think the west can really have any effect on this. Eastern Russia has long been acknowledged as vulnerable to Chinese enchroachment. Ironically the partnership at a strategic level between the two countries with the consequent increase in Chinese investment has made these areas more subject to Chinese influences.
 

bormotello

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Yep, I seen it in Russian section of Svoboda.org and Ukrainian forums.
I afraid Muslims holds more properties in Blanchardstown than Chinese in Listvyanka
So poor play of Western propaganda to get rid of alliance between Russia and China as biggest headache for West
Actually number of Chinese in Russia is decreasing last 10 years
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Yep, I seen it in Russian section of Svoboda.org and Ukrainian forums.
I afraid Muslims holds more properties in Blanchardstown than Chinese in Listvyanka
So poor play of Western propaganda to get rid of alliance between Russia and China as biggest headache for West
Actually number of Chinese in Russia is decreasing last 10 years
Is this western propaganda?

Real intervention is taking place before our very eyes. Inhabitants of the Middle Kingdom need our water, our air, our animals, trees and grass. On our fences hang banners in Chinese with information, on which resources you can find information about the sites being sold. All Listvyanka is fulled with announcements in Chinese and Korean languages about selling musk and other natural gifts. Our administration and residents appeal everywhere, including the prosecutor's office and deputies. All are powerless. Such affairs end with minor fines for Chinese citizens. A new federal law is needed that will be able to regulate the rights to purchase and use Baikal land. We can not give land to the Chinese, no matter that we are friends.
Sounds a bit manic but not very Western.

Èðêóòñê: Residents of Listvyanka collect signatures against purchases of lands on Lake Baikal by Chinese/ Æèòåëè Ëèñòâÿíêè ñîáèðàþò ïîäïèñè ïðîòèâ ñêóïêè êèòàéöàìè çåìåëü íà Áàéêàëå - ÁÈÇÍÅÑ-Á èíôîðìàöèîííûé öåíòð. | Äåëîâîé ìèð Áàéêàëà
 

Old Mr Grouser

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It looks like the area is about to become more culturally diverse ...
According to wiki it's pretty diverse anyway; Europeans only came into the area in the 17th Century, and in places the Mongolians are still the majority.

Lake Baikal

Buryatia

Irkutsk Oblast


[video=youtube;EInMzpWPvSM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EInMzpWPvSM[/video]
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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A danger that Putin himself has raised......

If we do not take practical steps to advance the Far East soon, after a few decades, the Russian population will be speaking Chinese, Japanese, and Korean.
 

bormotello

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Russian language doesn't mean anything, because CIA/US department of State pay a fortune for pseudo Russian sites
But I meant first FT article, because problem has been resolved in 2017, so whole FT article is just #fakenews/prppaganda
From site which you just referenced - The verification of lands on Lake Baikal, purchased by the Chinese, will begin in January 2018 | Infobaikal.ru
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Russian language doesn't mean anything, because CIA/US department of State pay a fortune for pseudo Russian sites
But I meant first FT article, because problem has been resolved in 2017, so whole FT article is just #fakenews/prppaganda
From site which you just referenced - The verification of lands on Lake Baikal, purchased by the Chinese, will begin in January 2018 | Infobaikal.ru
That the authorities are regulating Chinese development does not mean the the issue has been resolved. If Chinese investment continues, regulated or not, then Russia may find itself dealing with another sort of ‘Crimea’ problem at some point.
 

bormotello

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That the authorities are regulating Chinese development does not mean the the issue has been resolved. If Chinese investment continues, regulated or not, then Russia may find itself dealing with another sort of ‘Crimea’ problem at some point.
LOL
Then Europe should panic first, because Chinese invested here much more than to Russia
And Chinese migration to Russia is declining since 2008
 

Karloff

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I wouldn't want to share a border with China.

They hold the attitude 'where there are Chinese, there is China' - they are not a humble people.

Russia needs to restrict their numbers in it's border provinces. Mass migration, which our elites tell us is as harmless as rain - can be weaponised and frequently has been historically.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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LOL
Then Europe should panic first, because Chinese invested here much more than to Russia
And Chinese migration to Russia is declining since 2008
That reflects the decline in numbers of Chinese in Moscow however I think the stats are different for the eastern areas.

We don’t share a very long border with a very low population density on our side of the border.
 

bormotello

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That reflects the decline in numbers of Chinese in Moscow however I think the stats are different for the eastern areas.
Not really
Chinese can make more money in China now than in Russia
Low skilled migration from China is practically gone
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Not really
Chinese can make more money in China now than in Russia
Low skilled migration from China is practically gone
Fair point however as a counter the Russian population in these areas is declining and the age profile is high.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Good article in the Diplomat on the general issue.

It is likely that the Chinese population will increase within the Russian borders, albeit at a very slow rate. Also, it is likely that Russia, even though it has taken serious action to develop the Far East, will not be able to compete with China or Japan in terms of economic output in the Northwestern Pacific region. Nevertheless, Russia will remain a powerful voice in the region due to its position on the Security Council and the fact that it is a nuclear state. It will recuperate in the following decade due to the policies described above, but in the long run, demography, complexities on its Western and Southern peripheries, falling oil prices, and perhaps a global shift away from fossil fuels will eventually increase the pressure on Moscow and force it to make some difficult choices. If the Far East is to turn into a powder keg between the Russians and Chinese over the grievances of a large population from the latter, it will probably happen after 2050. In the decades until then, it is unlikely to explode as an issue on the world stage.
https://thediplomat.com/2016/01/russia-china-and-the-far-east-question/
 

bormotello

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Fair point however as a counter the Russian population in these areas is declining and the age profile is high.
True, but most of decline happened between 1992 and 2004, now it is still declining, but in much lower speed
 


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