Nazi Germany: The Drug-Fuelled Fascist State led by an addict Führer ....

owedtojoy

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The Japanese invented Pervitin, the Kamikazes used to take it to keep them going too and give them a send off that was heavenly.

Or you can just imagine a sleight and wave your fist in the sky at your imaginary windmill.
Actually, no. The Japanese may have used Pervitin, but it was a German brand-name.

See the OP

In 1933 the Temmler-Werke company introduced Pervitin, a methamphetamine-based stimulant. The doctor who developed it, Fritz Hauschild, would go on to pioneer East Germany’s sports doping program.
The Germans also found that continued use led to poor decision-making, but that was not the concern of the kamikaze pilots.
 


EoinMag

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Actually, no. The Japanese may have used Pervitin, but it was a German brand-name.

"kruemelkackerei", the drug was invented by the Japanese, the brand name is from the German manufacture of it after they bought the license.
 

EoinMag

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine

Amphetamine, discovered before methamphetamine, was first synthesized in 1887 in Germany by Romanian chemist Lazăr Edeleanu who named it phenylisopropylamine.[129][130] Shortly after, methamphetamine was synthesized from ephedrine in 1893 by Japanese chemist Nagai Nagayoshi.[131] Three decades later, in 1919, methamphetamine hydrochloride was synthesized by pharmacologist Akira Ogata via reduction of ephedrine using red phosphorus and iodine
 

EoinMag

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We don't take our understanding of the Carthaginians from Roman historians do we? Why should we take our understanding of Hitler from his modern day enemies, the inheritors of his conquerors?

The cartoonisation of the Third Reich continues. Is it any wonder people have problems swallowing the holocaust story when the stuff that gets made up is so ridiculous?

You laymen of the Holocaust religion do the cause no favours. Next week Hitler will be an X-man.


You should do yourself a favour and learn German, read "Mein Kampf" in original language...if you're still a fan after that then there is no helping you at all.
 

gleeful

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My own main takeaway was a bit different - if you took in the mad sweep of Hitler's ideology from the desire for Lebensraum in the East to the his psychopathic anti-Semitism, Nazi strategy was rational and efficient, within its own crackpot assumptions.

Tooze's book is the first I read that makes the different facets of the Nazi's strategy (pre-1939 re-armament, the 1939 attack on Poland, Operation Barbarossa, the subjection and exploitation of slave labour, the integration of the European economy to benefit Nazi Germany, and the genocide of Jews and Slavs) into a coherent whole.

A great book, highly recommended.
The broad strategy had a simplistic logic to it but the implementation and detail was a disaster. For example (and forgive some errors of memory here, I read the book around 10 years ago) oil - the Nazis thought capturing the oil resources around the Caspian sea would solve their problems of resources but it cost them more oil (in driving an army of millions to capture it) than they gained.

Similarly - labour. The Nazis calculated they could replace German workers sent to fight with foreign workers captured. Turns out the foreigners didn't want to work for the Nazis and were incredibly unproductive.

Great book. Changed my view of history.
 

owedtojoy

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine

Amphetamine, discovered before methamphetamine, was first synthesized in 1887 in Germany by Romanian chemist Lazăr Edeleanu who named it phenylisopropylamine.[129][130] Shortly after, methamphetamine was synthesized from ephedrine in 1893 by Japanese chemist Nagai Nagayoshi.[131] Three decades later, in 1919, methamphetamine hydrochloride was synthesized by pharmacologist Akira Ogata via reduction of ephedrine using red phosphorus and iodine
I do not see anything about Pervitin there. Thank you for the information, but you said the Japanese made it, and I pointed out you were incorrect.

A Japanese may have been the first to synthesise methamphetamine, but Pervitin was a German product, and presented the substance in tablet form for human consumption.

Possibly, the Japanese had their own version of Pervitin, a product of their own research.
 

EoinMag

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I do not see anything about Pervitin there. Thank you for the information, but you said the Japanese made it, and I pointed out you were incorrect.

A Japanese may have been the first to synthesise methamphetamine, but Pervitin was a German product, and presented the substance in tablet form for human consumption.

Possibly, the Japanese had their own version of Pervitin, a product of their own research.
Oh ffs man, they bought the license from the Japanese and produced it as Pervitin, ok?
 

owedtojoy

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The broad strategy had a simplistic logic to it but the implementation and detail was a disaster. For example (and forgive some errors of memory here, I read the book around 10 years ago) oil - the Nazis thought capturing the oil resources around the Caspian sea would solve their problems of resources but it cost them more oil (in driving an army of millions to capture it) than they gained.

Similarly - labour. The Nazis calculated they could replace German workers sent to fight with foreign workers captured. Turns out the foreigners didn't want to work for the Nazis and were incredibly unproductive.

Great book. Changed my view of history.
Agree with everything you say, Wages of Destruction made me also see Hitler's War in a new light.

Most impressive was the evisceration of the reputation of Albert Speer "the Good Nazi". One of the major injustices of Nuremberg is that Speer was not hanged, and got freed after 25 years, while the gormless idiot Rudolf Hess was kept in jail for life.

The lack of productivity among slave labour was compensated by the velocity with which replacements were found, to be worked to death in turn. The factory turning out the V1 and V2 was literally constructed from scratch by starving slaves who were driven mercilessly until they died and were replaced. When Speer visited the place, he found the factory strewn with corpses, something he does not mention in his memoirs.

The unity of the Generalplan Ost, the Hunger Plan and the Holocaust to murder Jews and starve Slavs is starkly presented in Tooze's book.

Here it is on Amazon for anyone interested.

https://www.amazon.com/Wages-Destruction-Making-Breaking-Economy/dp/0143113208
 

RasherHash

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The broad strategy had a simplistic logic to it but the implementation and detail was a disaster. For example (and forgive some errors of memory here, I read the book around 10 years ago) oil - the Nazis thought capturing the oil resources around the Caspian sea would solve their problems of resources but it cost them more oil (in driving an army of millions to capture it) than they gained.

Similarly - labour. The Nazis calculated they could replace German workers sent to fight with foreign workers captured. Turns out the foreigners didn't want to work for the Nazis and were incredibly unproductive.

Great book. Changed my view of history.
Exactly, and yet the pretense is they were spending even more resources transporting people (i.e. slave labour) to extermination camps and murdering them forthwith.

Nuts.
 

gleeful

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Exactly, and yet the pretense is they were spending even more resources transporting people (i.e. slave labour) to extermination camps and murdering them forthwith.

Nuts.
Its a myth that the Nazis were efficient.
 

mr. jings

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And we, with alcohol as our national drug, have a Dáil bar peopled largely by a shambolic gaggle of lumbering TDs who couldn't arrange a piss-up in a brewery.

Unless, of course, there was a rake of local votes to be getting from it.
 

owedtojoy

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:D

It made sense to a committed Nazi to work the slaves to death. Slavs were no better than horses to them, or Jews not much better than lice (a favourite Nazi metaphor). Besides, a dead Russian or Pole created "living-space" for a German in the East and a victory in the racial war. In the Nazi mythology, Jews were just a disease.

In some sections of the Nazi economy (established factories doing aero-engines for example) imported labourers did receive better rations, but never as much as the Germans themselves. The Hunger Plan envisioned the starvation of millions of Slavs to create "living space".
 

RasherHash

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All of these points have been more than refuted in different threads on the site, and in the literature. let anyone who wants to bother look them up.
Take the first point...


It's worth noting that the claims regarding gas chambers appear to have been War Propaganda - on a par with gassing claims made in WWI. Both by forensic evidence following the war & that from British Intelligence at the time suggest this.
During ww1 British propaganda claimed that the Austrian's were gassing Serb civilians in gas chambers and that they had mass murdered 700,000 in this way.

After the war this and other holocaust type propaganda was dropped like a stone, only for similar nonsense to be resurrected in ww2.

Can you explain why the ww1 propaganda was dropped but the ww2 version is still promoted?
 


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