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NC and feds to battle on transgender bathroom law

O'Sullivan Bere

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The legal fight over North Carolina’s transgender bathroom law, in 4 questions

NC's law restricts a transgender (TG) person to use public bathroom and showering facilities to the sex you were born with, unless you go through sex reassignment surgery (SRS) and have your birth certificate amended, an arduous task. Legally it's an interesting question because the 60s era federal law at issue never really contemplated this issue in full. That said, it's also a subject for political debate, and other laws in other states are also under legal and social scrutiny. debate revolves over whether or not this constitutes unlawful sex discrimination under the fed's civil rights laws. The law has also drawn numerous business boycotts against the state.

IMO, the NC law doesn't make sense as written, and seems to be part of an overall anti-LGBT campaign considering it also recently enacted other laws permitting LGBT discrimination. If someone has gone through SRS, they don't have the corresponding genitals anymore listed their birth certificate, and biologically it makes sense IMO to use the toilets and showers of the same genitalia.

That said, a majority of TGs don't go through with SRS. For example, Bruce Jenner calls himself Caitlyn now, but he still chooses to keep his male junk. He's also admittedly attracted to females as he was before (he's not gay and sought a sex change). Permitting someone with male junk in a women's shower and vice versa is a reasonable cause for discomfort for others IMO. Contrary to common PC denials, there are issues of cross dressing voyeurs too, and just letting people define themselves regardless of genitalia assignment make it easier for those types and/or gives them legal access to do what they intend to do.

It seems to me the issue ought to be resolved by whatever lower torso equipment you have whether natural or artificial. Your thoughts?
 
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GDPR

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Iam loving the American expression junk for the male genitalia. And aslo the concept that law turns on junk and who is in possession of real junk or pseudo-junk. :) Just sums up the whole of the Western world at this moment - lets think long and hard about our junk. You know that stuff thats real important.
 

dammit_im_mad

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Hey, lets frame the political debate so the proles only get to discuss where a small minority of people take a p*ss rather than being able to address any of the substantive issues.

Now the political class are truly taking the p*ss, both literally and figuratively

These people can barely hide their utter contempt for the citizens and the democratic process any more can they?

Well I suppose in a way p*ss IS the watchword here.
They have been p*ssing all over the constitution for years, they continually take the p*ss out of the citizens and now all we are allowed to discuss is where trannies take a p*ss. Well there are limits and as far as I can see the proles across the US are getting more and more p*ssed off.

Time for the pitchforks and torches!
 

Iarmuid

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Hey, lets frame the political debate so the proles only get to discuss where a small minority of people take a p*ss rather than being able to address any of the substantive issues.

Now the political class are truly taking the p*ss, both literally and figuratively

These people can barely hide their utter contempt for the citizens and the democratic process any more can they?

Well I suppose in a way p*ss IS the watchword here.
They have been p*ssing all over the constitution for years, they continually take the p*ss out of the citizens and now all we are allowed to discuss is where trannies take a p*ss. Well there are limits and as far as I can see the proles across the US are getting more and more p*ssed off.

Time for the pitchforks and torches!
Yep one get's the feeling things are coming to a head. Lot of angst about.

Traditional values are being actively undermined and replaced with trinkets and comfort blankets and we are in bad need of solid values lest we tear ourselves apart or someone else does it for us.
 
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O'Sullivan Bere

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Iam loving the American expression junk for the male genitalia. And aslo the concept that law turns on junk and who is in possession of real junk or pseudo-junk. :) Just sums up the whole of the Western world at this moment - lets think long and hard about our junk. You know that stuff thats real important.
It's just one thread amongst far more serious issues. It hardly overtakes the more pressing ones.

That said, it's a civil rights issue, which is worthy of public debate. The old line was that less than .10 pct were homosexual so that also was a reason to put such issues on the backburner without addressing the historically present harsh assessments and laws they endured.
 

RodShaft

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Iam loving the American expression junk for the male genitalia. And aslo the concept that law turns on junk and who is in possession of real junk or pseudo-junk. :) Just sums up the whole of the Western world at this moment - lets think long and hard about our junk. You know that stuff thats real important.
Yes, lets.
 

RodShaft

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Yep one get's the feeling things are coming to a head. Lot of angst about.

I was left of centre most of life but feel I haven't moved rather the centre has and now find myself to the right.

I now believe traditional values are being actively undermined and replaced with trinkets and comfort blankets. We need solid values more than ever lest we tear ourselves apart or someone else does it for us.
Oo-er.

Yiz just can't help it, can yiz?
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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The Stanford Center for the Study of Poverty and Inequality - 20 Facts About U.S. Inequality that Everyone Should Know Ah cmon - this is one of the most unequal societies in the world and we are meant to get upset because a transgender cant piss in the bogs of their own choosing?
Ah sure let's all enjoy lots of social dosh and/or government jobs paid for by British taxpayers across the pond with bad back and stress weeks off along with all the peaceful relations, equality and separation of church and state as found in Antrim.
 

GDPR

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LOl back to the fundamental breach of civil rights for the junk-bearers - this site will love it :)
 

Lara2

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There's a thread here about Bruce Sprinsteen refusing to play in North Carolina last month because of their transgender laws: http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/247669-springsteen-does-cry-bully-takes-ball-home-will-not-play-because-transgender-laws.html

Also, here in Ireland, Peter Mullan, assistant general secretary of INTO, (Irish National Teachers Association) is calling for unisex toilets in primary schools and unisex school uniforms, saying "people must accept we live in a changing society, and there must be recognition that some children have gender dysphoria."
Article: Teachers want unisex toilets for junior pupils - Independent.ie

Thread here: http://www.politics.ie/forum/education-science/248252-unisex-toilets-uniforms-according-into-lunacy-goes.html
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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There's a thread here about Bruce Sprinsteen refusing to play in North Carolina last month because of their transgender laws: http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/247669-springsteen-does-cry-bully-takes-ball-home-will-not-play-because-transgender-laws.html
NC's law is getting fire for having a broader and particularly odious intention.

. . .
The legislation doesn’t stop there, however. Tucked inside is language that strips North Carolina workers of the ability to sue under a state anti-discrimination law, a right that has been upheld in court since 1985. "If you were fired because of your race, fired because of your gender, fired because of your religion," said Allan Freyer, head of the Workers’ Rights Project at the North Carolina Justice Center in Raleigh, "you no longer have a basic remedy."
. . .
North Carolina’s Terrible Anti-LGBT Law Is Even Worse than We Thought

Lara2 said:
Also, here in Ireland, Peter Mullan, assistant general secretary of INTO, (Irish National Teachers Association) is calling for unisex toilets in primary schools and unisex school uniforms, saying "people must accept we live in a changing society, and there must be recognition that some children have gender dysphoria."
Article: Teachers want unisex toilets for junior pupils - Independent.ie
Yeah I heard of that. There's reasonable reasons for having same sex bathroom accommodations, far more that the scare stuff down to pragmatics. Unisex uniforms? What does he want...every woman to get a crew cut and ditch the lipstick and makeup? Fellas to wear non-kilt dresses or something? Unrealistic PC rubbish.
 

Ramon Mercadar

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Its about more than bathrooms.

Students at Appalachian State University are protesting against House Bill 2. It’s the latest round of protests against the bill that has put North Carolina firmly in the national spotlight.

Many have reached out to WBTV for a deeper explanation of what the law means.

“HB2 affects everyone,” said law professor Brian Clarke. Clark said if you face discrimination at work, you can no longer go straight to the courthouse and sue your employer.

“Trying to put it in normal human terms rather than in civil procedure terms – it’s much easier to file a case in state court,” Clarke said.

protesters
SLIDESHOW: Follow the major events since the signing of House Bill 2
HB2 delivered on what state lawmakers promised.

“It creates a state-wide non-discrimination ordinance and public accommodations which we’ve never had before, which is a perfectly good thing to do,” Clarke said. “But it, of course, limits the protection categories to race, age, national origin, religion, color and biological sex to avoid any potential expansion of that in the courts.” ...

NC professor explains implications of HB2 | WNCN
 

mr. jings

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[video=youtube;qGcurCOBrZo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGcurCOBrZo[/video]

 

blokesbloke

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In terms purely on whether the law makes sense or not, it would seem to me that it comes down to what the law is on amending the birth certificate.

Is this different from state to state or is there a federal law on it?

Because if you can have your sex recognised as changed without the surgery, then the law makes no sense - you can be legally recognised as the opposite sex to the one you were born biologically, but this other law will still forced you to use the opposite sex bathroom.

That creates a legal conflict with a pre-existing law, and no new law should do that unless the previous law is repealed.

If the law says you have to have full surgery before you have the birth certificate changed then this law is logically consistent, whatever the rights or wrongs of it.
 

blokesbloke

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The Stanford Center for the Study of Poverty and Inequality - 20 Facts About U.S. Inequality that Everyone Should Know Ah cmon - this is one of the most unequal societies in the world and we are meant to get upset because a transgender cant piss in the bogs of their own choosing?
You could say that about any issue - and people often did, including on women's rights and gay rights.

There's always something more important, but it doesn't mean other things can be put on hold forever until the main issues are sorted.

Besides, you can turn that on its head - has the North Carolina legislature got no more important issues to be tackling in the state than passing laws and who can and can't use bathrooms?

Other states seem to manage without a law on the subject.
 


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