• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Need For An Employers Register Of Employees


General Urko

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
15,751
Employers, IMO after having seen several sleeveen ones in action should have to maintain an employee register open for all to see containing such details as 1 Number of employees 2 Number Full-time vs Part-time 3 Irish and British as a proportion of their workforce 4 Number on minimum wage and a few gradations upwards 5 Number officially unionised 6 Any on internships/Jobbridge/ FAS placements and percentage in recent past on such schemes who got Full-time employment there 7 Job agency staff employed 8 number of officially disabled workers
The general public and other organisations can then use this as a factor in deciding whether or not to deal with the organisation in question! If you have nothing to hide, there should be no problem!
In case somebody attacks me of an apparent racist point in number 3, well in this day and age if they didn't have a few foreign workers that should also indicate that the organisation is probably best avoided also, the same IMO if it had 100% non Irish/British workers there (unless it's the local Borzas)!
There has to be some barrier placed on unscrupulous employers to stop them acting the bollex, there's none at present really!
 


Amnesiac

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
1,035
I doubt that such a database would have a substantial impact on people's behaviour. It is generally obvious which companies employ mostly part-time, minimum wage, foreign employees. That doesn't stop people from engaging with these businesses.

Employment equality legislation exists to stop employers "acting the bollex". If you think this is insufficient, then whistleblower legislation may help reduce the risk of exploitation (if this doesn't exist already).
 

bob3367

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
8,083
Employers, IMO after having seen several sleeveen ones in action should have to maintain an employee register open for all to see containing such details as 1 Number of employees 2 Number Full-time vs Part-time 3 Irish and British as a proportion of their workforce 4 Number on minimum wage and a few gradations upwards 5 Number officially unionised 6 Any on internships/Jobbridge/ FAS placements and percentage in recent past on such schemes who got Full-time employment there 7 Job agency staff employed 8 number of officially disabled workers
The general public and other organisations can then use this as a factor in deciding whether or not to deal with the organisation in question! If you have nothing to hide, there should be no problem!
In case somebody attacks me of an apparent racist point in number 3, well in this day and age if they didn't have a few foreign workers that should also indicate that the organisation is probably best avoided also, the same IMO if it had 100% non Irish/British workers there (unless it's the local Borzas)!
There has to be some barrier placed on unscrupulous employers to stop them acting the bollex, there's none at present really!
Its called the HR system, and is confidential .....
 

General Urko

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
15,751
Another important thing for the world to know is if pay cuts have been enforced on employees and to what extent!
 

General Urko

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
15,751
Calling for and maintaining such documents is a way in which the becoming much hated trade union movement can save its soul!
 

cabledude

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
6,362
It needs to be open!
No it does not. A database for use by Revenue or Social welfare perhaps for helping in the fight to eliminate fraud. But a nosey parkers charter like this is daft. Sorry.
 

cabledude

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
6,362
Another important thing for the world to know is if pay cuts have been enforced on employees and to what extent!
Private business between an employer and employee. No business of yours or anyone else for that matter.
 

General Urko

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
15,751
There is of course one massive thing in the Irsh psyche which would militate against it and that is our national characteristic of exploitation and abuse towards those we perceive as weaker than ourselves, so we would actively support ass holes abusing workers to get bargains!:mad:
 

General Urko

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
15,751
No it does not. A database for use by Revenue or Social welfare perhaps for helping in the fight to eliminate fraud. But a nosey parkers charter like this is daft. Sorry.
Do I not have a right to information on which to base my decision to engage with a business or not! How do you suggest we curtail ass hole employers?
 

General Urko

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
15,751
Private business between an employer and employee. No business of yours or anyone else for that matter.
If an employer is riding the holes of his/her employees it becomes all our business!
 

General Urko

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
15,751
You haven't explained why?
The whole point of it is to act as a restraining factor on employers from taking advantage of their employees and to expose those who are chancing it!
 

clonycavanman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
656
To be an employer is an important priviledge.

This is a completely reasonable and long-overdue proposal, and a neccessary counter-balence to the potential abuses of the anglo-saxon and globalisation economic model and Employers have an important, even priviledged role, in our society and an enormous amount of socially progessive legislation and entitlements relies upon the GOOD FAITH of employers, with no enforcement by the State, in a situation of disproportionate power vis-a-vis vulnerable workers and job applicants.
EU legislation already requires that a work-place should not employ more than 50% of it's staff from outide the EU- so the principle (but not the mechanism) of disclosing who is employed has already been recognised. To become registered, and permitted to employ other people, employers should be tested on their knowledge of employment law, and their attitudes non-discrimination etc, and their practices monitored with openess to public scrutiny.
 

cabledude

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
6,362
Do I not have a right to information on which to base my decision to engage with a business or not! How do you suggest we curtail ass hole employers?
Employees should go work somewhere else. I don't care if an employer is an ******************************************. If he provides me with goods or services better, faster and cheaper than anyone else, I'll deal with him.
 

cabledude

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
6,362
If an employer is riding the holes of his/her employees it becomes all our business!
No. It does not. There are Labour court services available to employees to deal with these employers.
 

gatsbygirl20

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
22,773
Do I not have a right to information on which to base my decision to engage with a business or not! How do you suggest we curtail ass hole employers?
This is an attempt to do just that.

Decent employers have nothing to fear. They will benefit from it, as it may expose unscrupulous employers who are undercutting them by flouting the law

It is also about employees well-being, not just about your rights as a consumer, or whether you engage with a business or not.

IBEC etc, continually call for transparency in other areas, so should have no objection to this in principle

The problem I see is the one the bedevils all attempts at "transparency" in the workplace, including in my own area, and that is mad, creeping, time-consuming bureaucracy

SME owners already complain about the mountains of red tape that is eating away at their work-time. And this could be just more of it. So that needs to be watched....
 

Expose the lot of them

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
20,926
This is a completely reasonable and long-overdue proposal, and a neccessary counter-balence to the potential abuses of the anglo-saxon and globalisation economic model and Employers have an important, even priviledged role, in our society and an enormous amount of socially progessive legislation and entitlements relies upon the GOOD FAITH of employers, with no enforcement by the State, in a situation of disproportionate power vis-a-vis vulnerable workers and job applicants.
EU legislation already requires that a work-place should not employ more than 50% of it's staff from outide the EU- so the principle (but not the mechanism) of disclosing who is employed has already been recognised. To become registered, and permitted to employ other people, employers should be tested on their knowledge of employment law, and their attitudes non-discrimination etc, and their practices monitored with openess to public scrutiny.
There are several conditions which must be met by an employer who wishes to obtain a work permit (not a green card) for an non-EU employee, also there are a number of categories which are ineligible for which work permits will not be issued.

I understand that a number of these conditions will shortly be removed in order to facilitate employers who wish to hire non-EU workers, currently some the conditions are as follows:

Salary not less than €30k, this is one of the conditions which will be removed -so much for the claim that employers need "highly skilled" workers not available in the EU

There is a labour market needs test, this requires the employer to advertise the position in the national papers, on the FAS website and the EURES website. - There is no process to verify that the employer has genuinely engaged with applicants from Ireland and within the EU, the work permit is granted based on the employer's claim that a suitable candidate could not be recruited within the EU. This needs to change, all job posts for which an employer intends to apply for a work permit should be clearly flagged as such. All applications should be made to an independent agency with staff qualified to assess and verify the skills, qualifications and experience of all applicants. When and only when this agency has ensured that the jobs were posted in accordance with the requirements and when all Irish/EU applicants have been assessed and the agency has verified that no suitable candidate has emerged should a work permit be issued.

Work permits, both new and renewals, are routinely issued for ineligible categories, this should cease immediately.

There is a question on the work permit application form which asks the applicant employer about his/her plans to train and Irish/EU candidate to replace the work permit holder. This has never been enforced, again this needs to change and prior to a work permit being issued the plan should be submitted to the independent verifying agency, which will at that time identify 3-5 suitable candidates. These candidates will then, depending on the type of skills and experience required, be either placed in an internship with the organisation seeking the work permit and/or enrolled in a relevant college programme combined with a work placement within the organisation, the progress of the candidates should be assessed by the college, company and suitably qualified independent assessor. No work permit should be renewed for an company which fails to meet this condition.

The cost of the independent verification process should be met, in full, by the companies issued with work permits.

A list of organisations which have been granted work permits is available here DJEI - Statistical Tables and Company Listings for the Employment Permits Section
and makes very interesting reading. Unfortunately there is no indication given of how many total worker permits plus green cards have been issued to a company, or for that matter individuals. The statistics only relate to the number of new and renewals granted in a particular year. It is worth noting that new permits are routinely being issued in the ineligible categories (shown in the by category spreadheet) and to cleaning, security and facilities and security companies.
 

Expose the lot of them

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
20,926
No. It does not. There are Labour court services available to employees to deal with these employers.
There is also the Rights Commissioner service, the EAT and the Equality Tribunal whoever, they have waiting lists of up to 2 years to hear cases and these fora are limited. In a recently published case, "Over the course of the Tribunal the Employer’s representative stated that the Employer operated in “the black Economy” and did not pay tax or PRSI. It is notable how freely the employer in this case admitted to operating in the black economy and how forthright he was in in saying he did not pay tax." The full report can be read here http://thepeninsulairelandblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/kostka-v-kelliher-ud2329-2010.pdf
 

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top