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Never to own a home of your own, thanks Fianna Fáil!


untouchable

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Feb 2, 2004
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www.soldiersofdestiny.org
May I comment on the recently published study of the Dublin housing market by Trinity professor P.J. Drudy.
Let it not be forgotten that the banks and building societies are also in criminal partnership with Fianna Fail in the greatest rip off of the century ,of our young people so desperate to own a home of their own, at any price.If these amoral,greedy, profit driven organizations were using prudent lending criteria and the old rules which restricted loans to a multiple of annual income were still in force the housing rip off would come to a standstill.The same banks,which aided and abetted thousands of businessmen to avoid paying their taxes through off shore a and fraudulent 'non resident'accounts ,and got off virtually scott free for their crimes-are now complicit in the great housing gouge of our young by 'Friends of Fianna Fail.'Fianna Fail will never -and can never- reform the status quo, as their relationship with landowners,builders and big business is so intertwined as to preclude that possibility.The current Oireachtas report and recommendations on reform, will gather dust, in government Archives,as did the last report on this subject commissioned over a decade ago.Fianna Fail is 'Big Business' ;Fianna Fail is 'The Builders Party';Fianna Fail is the Embodiment of Corruption since the day that C.J.H.hijacked it,many years past.I do not believe it is capable of re-inventing itself.Even now 'Cu Cullen is driving new highways out from 'The Pale,cutting across our most precious heritage,The Hill Of Tara in the process-,having soaked Dublins citizens dry,-the new speculators,farmers,and landowners of the hinterlands,await the arrival of our dispossed youth,who will be fleeced once again in the towns of Navan ,Trim,Kells,etc,and face a long (and expensive )commute into Dublin,- all for the privilege of owining a home of their own.Civil servants -,who dont want to leave-can consider themselves lucky!-they won't have so far to travel for gainful employment thanks to their forced repatriation.If this government are allowed to continue with their depredation and exploitation of our young people it will be an unforgivable crime,and all those who propose to vote for them in the coming election must examine their conscience .
y



[Edited on 23/9/2004 by David Cochrane]
 

Cork

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Feb 4, 2003
Messages
418
Never to own a home of your own,-Thanks fianna Fail1
We live in a free market economy not in Cuba. House prices are determined by supply & demand.

More houses are being built in this country than any time in thw past.

But ignore the facts & blame FF.

People themselves are paying crazy prices for houses. But don't blame them - blame FF.

People are paying crazy money for houses in "snob areas" but again - lets blame the government.

Can people cannot accept that we live in a market economy?

When interest rates go up - these peeople will be ringing up RTE radio saying that they can't afford their mortgages.

Again - thei'll blame the government.
 

KingKane

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Aug 19, 2003
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kingkane
Cork, are you sure you are sitting down, cos it sounds like you talking through your rear end there.

"House prices are determined by supply & demand." Supply and demand can only work where the production cycle is not unnaturally restrained. Zoning and the finite amount of land available for development means that the normal rules of supply and demand don't apply.

"More houses are being built in this country than any time in thw past." So, what! In the past, Ireland was historically a country of emigration, so housing production levels were never close to the demand that the demographics would have required. Last January, 03 the number of housing starts dropped compared to the previous year, 02 because there was a hint that prices might level out.

See the facts & blame FF.

"People themselves are paying crazy prices for houses. But don't blame them - blame FF.
People are paying crazy money for houses in "snob areas" but again - lets blame the government."

People are paying crazy money for houses all over the place, snob areas and dumps. The fact is that we've completely bought this idiotic idea that investors are needed to drive a profitable housing market. The only reason that many people are renting from the investor market is because they have been pricing out from buying.
 

Dera

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Aug 7, 2003
Messages
6
KK, hear, hear.

Cork - you comments are childish and naive, there is no such thing as a free market, they are always guided and controlled.
 

geraghd

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Dec 22, 2003
Messages
474
This free market thing is the solution to everything it seems for some people..
As the housing market testifies it doesnt always work out.. and FF/PDs are to blame for doing nothing about it..
Well done KK..
And YFG are the only ones that seem to be pushing the agenda for change in the houseing market..
 

abhaile

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Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
12
Some links relevant to the PJ Drudy Report

http://www.labour.ie/press/detail.tmpl? ... 0409132511

http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/ ... 2fa91M.asp

According to Prof Drudy's report, almost half of those living in Dublin and a third of those living nationally will not be able to afford their own home in two years' time.




Deputy Gilmore expressed the urgency of the situation by revealing that a couple hoping to buy a new house in Dublin would now need a combined income of about €90,000.


It is debatable if an amendment to the constitution is required to allow government to take action to minimize the supernormal profits been "earned" by land speculators. That said there needs to be government will to take action on behalf of young people been squeezed out of the property market.

Unfortunately, I guess we all know were this government’s sympathies lie, based on their inaction on this issue.
 

crosswind

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Oct 15, 2003
Messages
160
To be fair i don't think any government has really tackled this issue properly. The kenny report came out around 1973, unfortunately that was the year of the first oil crisis which hurt world economies and so there was no big need to tackle housing prices head on (I am assuming). The big pressure started in the mid nineties but has become particularly acute in the past three years. People say that it isn't a problem, the market is king. unfortunately huge house price inflation has damaged economies before, britain was hurt and the Japanese dug themselves into a hole with it that some might say they still haven't fully recovered from. To be honest i don't think this government has what it takes to intervene in the housing market. If they do it they'll probably cause the crash they are trying to avoid.
 

geraghd

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Dec 22, 2003
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474
would a crash be such a big problem?
 

crosswind

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Oct 15, 2003
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YES
people who have taken out big mortgages which may be as much as 90% of the total house price would be sitting on something called negative equity. ie their mortgage is more than the value of the house. If there was a difficulty in payments and the bank foreclosed then the owner(s) would be backrupt. Tax revenues would suffer as people make loses on houses they bought and then sell, there would be a slump in demand for new houses inherent in a crash thus the building industry which has been irelands powerhouse for the past couple of years would stall.
THis would probably spill over into higher taxes because of reduced government revenue, more people demanding social housing and unemployment from the building indutry losing jobs. less jobs means less demand for houses...it becomes a spiral....Crash! that's just one possible scenario with over-simplification.
 

geraghd

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Dec 22, 2003
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474
i understand the negative equity aspect but the difficulty in payments would be the same even if the morgage was overvaluing the house right?
If there is a slump in demand then would demand not come close to supply in that case and so the building industry would still build the smae level of houses even more since demand is way over supply at this stage?
How would tax revenue sufffer is people sell houses? i mean i can understand the some revenue would be lost but hardly enough to increase taxes and already the govt are making a absolute killing on houses already off the backs of people trying to fork out extortionist prices for homes..
 

crosswind

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Oct 15, 2003
Messages
160
the people selling the houses would make a loss and so less taxes would be paid and if they were investors they could write some losses off against tax depending on their tax situation.
The thing about a crash is that nobody is going to buy a house today what they can get for less tomorrow, if they think prices are falling then they will wait with their cash before parting with it. With demand suddenly dropping on this basis and remember first time buyers don't even account for the majority of the market. Investors, seeing less value for money in houses might spend in stock markets instead. it does get messy.

i don't see this happening, i think there is enough pent up demand to be able to keep it from happening, even with a modest drop in house prices. two dangers, one, the government tries to do something and makes a mess of it, scaring off investors... or second nothing changes, the price of houses continues to rise at twelve percent a year, eventually something will have to give...
 

geraghd

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Dec 22, 2003
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474
How i wish I could study economics... would come in handy!
 

cleareyed

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Apr 14, 2004
Messages
43
What is always amusing about "supply and demand" is that ppl assume that there is a shortage behind it: i.e. if goods are in scarce demand then prices will increase. In parts of this country there has been no shortage of housing but prices have risen in keeping with the "national" trend. There has been profiteering on a huge scale by the building and allied trades, accompanied by political corruption and planning corruption and tax evasion.

If people wake up to this and abandon taditional party loyalties there will be a major shift in political power. IF!
 

Realism

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Feb 4, 2003
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Its not just about supply. Demand is a big factor. Everybody wanting - or the planning nightmare that is FF/FG/Lab councils giving into developers and farmers who want to sell a bit of land - big two-storey houses. Prices would be lower if half of us lived in, say, five-storey apartments.

So change people's expectations thereby modifying demand, and kick out the corrupt councils and government that doesn't mind their supporters hoarding rezoned land and not building on it until it suits them. And put in measures to get enough of a 50:50 mix of two-storey and five-storey built to bring down prices.

So supply and demand measures needed which are also intertwined.
 

CJH

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Feb 24, 2004
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Everybody wanting - or the planning nightmare that is FF/FG/Lab councils giving into developers and farmers who want to sell a bit of land - big two-storey houses. Prices would be lower if half of us lived in, say, five-storey apartments.
while it's true that we would not have the problem of urban sprawl to the extent that we do if more people lived in apartments, don't blame that on politicians. people want to live in houses, if they wanted apartments that is what would be built
 

Cork

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Feb 4, 2003
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418
When Councillers vote for re-zoning - they are critised.

More houses are being now than at any time previously.

RTE has a programme "House Hunters in the Sun". People buying second homes in sunnier climates.

This programme is getting massive ratings. Our public service broadcaster is doing a magnificent job in making such a programme.

Never to own a home of your own,-Thanks fianna Fail1
Fact: There never has been so many homes been built & many Irish now have a foriegn retreat.

This is thanks to FF and the PDs.

But people crib about the price of houses. It is people themselves who are paying crazy money.

It is the same situation as on ebay - supply & demand.

We live in a market economy - If ye don't like that there is always Cuba.
 

cleareyed

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Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Messages
43
"Many irish own a foreign retreat"
LOL
Thanks to FF!!

Ppl owe nothing to FF. Politicians exist to serve the ppl. End of story. The "old" ways of gratitude to political overlords who manipulate and exploit while masking their corruption have ended. Except obviously, in Cork.
 

untouchable

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Feb 2, 2004
Messages
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www.soldiersofdestiny.org
'Cork Member is a real charachter,a s--t stirrer for sure!
Most of the foreign home owners I know ,are lawyers, businessmen,farmers,Publicans and Builders-and retired Civil Servants,semi State officials,etc -who have enough new wealth and retirement benefits-or enough 'black money('dinero negro',in spanish)-to qualify for a place in the sun.
That said I know of a few ordinary astute widows,and retired couples, from working class estates in Dublin who have sold their (formerly)council houses for so much money that they have bought a lovely apartment on the 'Costa Del Sol'and still have enough left over to supplement their old age pension and live a wonderful lifestyle,in a country (Spain)where the cost of living is at least 40% lower than ripoff Ireland.!
It's an ill wind in the Irish housing rip off that does not blow someone some good!
At least be happy for those old age pensioners who have got a most unexpected bonus from Fianna Fail,towards the end of their working lives,Thanks Fianna Fail for that!!(I am one of them!)
 
Joined
May 5, 2004
Messages
16
[quote:1udwtdmn]Never to own a home of your own,-Thanks fianna Fail1
We live in a free market economy not in Cuba. House prices are determined by supply & demand.

More houses are being built in this country than any time in thw past.

But ignore the facts & blame FF.

People themselves are paying crazy prices for houses. But don't blame them - blame FF.

People are paying crazy money for houses in "snob areas" but again - lets blame the government.

Can people cannot accept that we live in a market economy?

When interest rates go up - these peeople will be ringing up RTE radio saying that they can't afford their mortgages.

Again - thei'll blame the government.

[/quote:1udwtdmn]


fair enough. Cheers for that I will. Tis nice to know who to blame.
 
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