New approaches to classroom discipline in schools

Patslatt1

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See https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21740467-there-not-much-evidence-extremely-strict-teaching-works-tough-love-falls-out

No doubt many Irish schools in socially deprived areas struggle with classroom disruption. They could learn from the linked article's description of new approaches to curbing disruptive behaviour in schools in the USA without suspensions and expulsions. Less punitive schemes include:
[]"Positive Behavioural Interventions and Support", teaching good conduct as if it were another subject (presumably with individual teaching for disruptive students!)
[]"Restorative Justice", teaching offending children to acknowledge that their behaviour has harmed others and how to behave

Both approaches seem to work.
 


gleeful

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Ive kids in a deprived working class school in north Dublin City. Its very well managed and they dont have a big issue with discipline. Whatever they are doing, i think the Americans could learn from us.
 

The Field Marshal

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Ive kids in a deprived working class school in north Dublin City. Its very well managed and they dont have a big issue with discipline. Whatever they are doing, i think the Americans could learn from us.
As long as the teachers are frequently beaten then management and discipline of students should not present a problem.

The root of Irish educational problems is that too few teachers receive physical chastisement.
 

silverharp

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Ive kids in a deprived working class school in north Dublin City. Its very well managed and they dont have a big issue with discipline. Whatever they are doing, i think the Americans could learn from us.
primary or secondary? if there is discipline they probably more pop up more in secondary
 

GDPR

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I got suspended from school twice though I was in general a diligent and respectful student for beating up other girls quite badly. The second time I came near to being expelled- I really bloodied her- but they had mercy on me through the pleading of two of my teachers and a Vicar, and so just suspended me out of pity for the fact that my da was in prison at the time. I have threatened to slap my daughter but I have never actually done so- I do though believe in principle in corporal punishment. I would like to see it re-introduced into schools.
 

Lúidín

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Pat Slatt: No doubt many Irish schools in socially deprived areas struggle with classroom disruption.
Hold on a minute! Is there any basis at all at all in that sweeping generalisation or just your insecure class prejudice?
 

Texal Tom

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We have a principal who has read a few books on discipline and has decided to follow one of those gurus who live in their ivory towers.

If a student is misbehaving it's because we as teachers are not teaching them properly. Some of us talk down t the students so what should be expect. He's big into putting up nice behaviour charts and has personally become best friends with the biggest offenders.

This has resulted in a complete breakdown of discipline in the school and teachers have been viciously verbs.ly assaulted and doors slammed in their faces etc. We can't suspend students now we have to work with them and reflect on what we are doing etc. These students are strutting around the school and teachers are running for cover. Over half the staff opted out of the s and s scheme at the last opportunity

It's got to the point where students aware now complaining and are very annoyed that the tail is wagging the dog and some classes are unteachable. Teachers have completely backed off and the thugs have taken over and they are now bringing drugs in to the school. My own children will be going to another school where they have strong discipline and better academic outcomes.

I think a lot of this is coming from the new junior Cert well being philosophy. This is not just a 40 min subject but is supposed to be overtly expressed in all lessons. Again theses involved in the new Jo have bolted as fast as they could out of the classrooms and by doing one day induction courses have now become experts.

This is a social experiment which has failed in so many countries and we are charrging full on into it here. But t fits in with all the other tinkering with the social fabric that s going on in our society

Interestingly one of these little poorly thaught darlings told the principal he is a ************************ and his school is a kip and he was suspended! Bad principalship?
 
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GDPR

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The only thing any child learned from corporal punishment is that it is OK to hit people.
 

Expose the lot of them

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See https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21740467-there-not-much-evidence-extremely-strict-teaching-works-tough-love-falls-out

No doubt many Irish schools in socially deprived areas struggle with classroom disruption. They could learn from the linked article's description of new approaches to curbing disruptive behaviour in schools in the USA without suspensions and expulsions. Less punitive schemes include:
[]"Positive Behavioural Interventions and Support", teaching good conduct as if it were another subject (presumably with individual teaching for disruptive students!)
[]"Restorative Justice", teaching offending children to acknowledge that their behaviour has harmed others and how to behave

Both approaches seem to work.
Some years ago there was funding available for restorative practices training in schools in Dublin. Those schools that participated fully reported great improvements, unfortunately many schools list out on the benefits as the teachers refused to cooperate.
 

JimmyFoley

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I got suspended from school twice though I was in general a diligent and respectful student for beating up other girls quite badly. The second time I came near to being expelled- I really bloodied her- but they had mercy on me through the pleading of two of my teachers and a Vicar, and so just suspended me out of pity for the fact that my da was in prison at the time. I have threatened to slap my daughter but I have never actually done so- I do though believe in principle in corporal punishment. I would like to see it re-introduced into schools.
Other girls? But you're a middle-aged man. 🤔
 

silverharp

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We have a principal who has read a few books on discipline and has decided to follow one of those gurus who live in their ivory towers.

If a student is misbehaving it's because we as teachers are not teaching them properly. Some of us talk down t the students so what should be expect. He's big into putting up nice behaviour charts and has personally become best friends with the biggest offenders.

This has resulted in a complete breakdown of discipline in the school and teachers have been viciously verbs.ly assaulted and doors slammed in their faces etc. We can't suspend students now we have to work with them and reflect on what we are doing etc. These students are strutting around the school and teachers are running for cover. Over half the staff opted out of the s and s scheme at the last opportunity

It's got to the point where students aware now complaining and are very annoyed that the tail is wagging the dog and some classes are unteachable. Teachers have completely backed off and the thugs have taken over and they are now bringing drugs in to the school. My own children will be going to another school where they have strong discipline and better academic outcomes.

I think a lot of this is coming from the new junior Cert well being philosophy. This is not just a 40 min subject but is supposed to be overtly expressed in all lessons. Again theses involved in the new Jo have bolted as fast as they could out of the classrooms and by doing one day induction courses have now become experts.

This is a social experiment which has failed in so many countries and we are charrging full on into it here. But t fits in with all the other tinkering with the social fabric that s going on in our society
we were at a parents night for the new JC and to be honest i was impressed , i like the idea of them learning presentation skills, videoing themselves etc and getting feedback. the school my kids go to allow the kids to express themselves so it works for kids that might be intelligent but bored.
 

GDPR

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batter the crap out of kids when they get to school - and you could get the NRA to sponsor the canes.
Trotsky wanted people shot for turning up late to work remember? Or do you discuss his "militarization of labour" beliefs at all in the CWI? ;)
 

Texal Tom

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we were at a parents night for the new JC and to be honest i was impressed , i like the idea of them learning presentation skills, videoing themselves etc and getting feedback. the school my kids go to allow the kids to express themselves so it works for kids that might be intelligent but bored.
The assumption is that they will all be in jobs and doing presentations - most won't. Many students find the whole affair very stressful and some won't come to school out of fear. We were forced to push all the desks into 4s and this means that a sizeable number will have their backs to the teacher - only works in nice ty classes. Most teachers reverted back to the standard formation as they couldn't deal with the messing etc
 

gatsbygirl20

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See https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21740467-there-not-much-evidence-extremely-strict-teaching-works-tough-love-falls-out

No doubt many Irish schools in socially deprived areas struggle with classroom disruption. They could learn from the linked article's description of new approaches to curbing disruptive behaviour in schools in the USA without suspensions and expulsions. Less punitive schemes include:
[]"Positive Behavioural Interventions and Support", teaching good conduct as if it were another subject (presumably with individual teaching for disruptive students!)
[]"Restorative Justice", teaching offending children to acknowledge that their behaviour has harmed others and how to behave

Both approaches seem to work.
These interventions are common in many Irish schools already

Staff at my school were trained in Restorative Justice and a successful UK-based intervention called Discipline For Learning ( a system of positive reinforcement coupled with a totally consistent set of sanctions imposed by all members of staff) back in the Noughties
 

Texal Tom

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The only thing any child learned from corporal punishment is that it is OK to hit people.
I had to endure corporal punishment all the way through primary school. I was hit several times and for very minor offences. I have never hit anyone except for self defence and my class mates in fairness had a very strong sense of justice. While I don't think cp makes people more aggressive I don't think the absence of it is necessarily a bad thing. I don't have actual facts or stats but I would argue that our streets have become more dangerous and people much more callous in the last 10 or so years and that those engaged would have been the slap free free breakfasts and lunches generation
 


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