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'New [breakaway] States will have to apply to join the EU'; Barosso


clonycavanman

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BBC News - Scottish independence: EC's Barroso says new states need 'apply to join EU'

Manuel Barosso is talking in the context of Scotland and Catalonia, and possibly Flanders, seeking 'independence' from their current States.

This is significantly different mood-music from the European Commission/EU which has undermined the nation states of europe for years; but also brought in East Germany without any application palaver, and formerly announced that Georgia and Ukraine were welcome merely 'if they met the criteria'.

Nicola Sturgeon of the Scottish National Party counters that there is no provision for EU citizens (Rem Lisbon Treaty) to be expelled by the Union (ouch!).
 


Analyzer

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Ah yes, the Scots. Not to keen on Sturgeon and her FFinished type approach to running an economy.

But Scotland could be freed from 90% of the UK government debt, and freed from being forced into contributing for cleaning up the mess that has resulted from the ECB Asset bubble. That would be an enormous stroke of good luck. Especially considering that Calamity Brown ramped that debt up to unsustainable levels by bailing out Royal Bank of Scotland.

And then they have hydrocarbon reserves.

Lucky lucky b@stards.
 
Last edited:

d7bohs

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*Thinks* is there anyway we could form a breakaway state from Ireland, minus say, Cavan, and get ourselves expelled?
 

Ryan Tubbs

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This is a no-brainer, and a 1st year law student could have told you this.

Citizens don't sign up to join the EU: member states do. Ergo, if a part of a member state specifically breaks away from that member state and its constitution, and establishes a new sovereign state, then it can no longer be part of the EU.

The fact that Nicola Sturgeon - a really contemptible shrew, even by SNP standards - has sought to raise this ridiculous "no citizens can be expelled from the EU" line shows the desparate position which the SNP have been brought to on this, courtesy of Alex Salmond's direct lies to the public on the legal advice which he didn't seek on the issue (but said he did).
 

toconn

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Wouldn't be just up to Barosso would it ? He's playing his Spanish card on the basis that Spain has a good deal to lose if Catalonia goes. He needs to come down from his pedastel !
 

Ribeye

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What will Barroso do when all the nations break away?

Who will pay his fckn wages then?

EU - Beaten docket!
 

stopdoingstuff

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Lucky them. However, it woudn't be a big job to be let in given that one didn't even have to meet the convergence criteria for joining to single currency to be let in. What this is really about is that the EU hates anything to do with local control or national self-determination. Empires don't like uppity locals.
 

neiphin

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No, but surely he is entitled to state the factual position when asked a question?
have you ever seen him been challenged by paul murphy
 

DuineEile

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This is a no-brainer, and a 1st year law student could have told you this.

Citizens don't sign up to join the EU: member states do. Ergo, if a part of a member state specifically breaks away from that member state and its constitution, and establishes a new sovereign state, then it can no longer be part of the EU.

The fact that Nicola Sturgeon - a really contemptible shrew, even by SNP standards - has sought to raise this ridiculous "no citizens can be expelled from the EU" line shows the desparate position which the SNP have been brought to on this, courtesy of Alex Salmond's direct lies to the public on the legal advice which he didn't seek on the issue (but said he did).
When a union of two countries is dissolved, there are two countries created.

If Scotland becomes a separate state, what is left behind is not thw United Kingdom of Great Britain and NI.

Great Britain would cease to exist.

D
 

bluefirelog

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If a breakaway state has to apply to join the EU, they would have to go through an accession process and then the Member State they broke away from could block their accession as a form of revenge!
 

NYCKY

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Interesting, if this came to pass and places like Scotland and Catalonia did break away and want to join the EU as independent nations, they would have to adopt the Euro. Acceding countries do not have the opt out that Britain and Denmark have.

Not much of a problem for Catalonia or Flanders as they already use it but Scotland doesn't.
 

P Ryan

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Pity Germany hasn't broken down into its component states/kingdoms yet...
 

Con Gallagher

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What if Scotland voted to go independent but join another member state (in an external relationship but without pooling resources or its constitutional arrangement) pending approval of membership of the EU as an independent member state?
 

NYCKY

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I don't think this would be a problem. The Scots aren't nearly as hostile to the Euro as the English.

I could be wrong but I thought part of the proposed Independence plan was that the Scots would keep the pound as the currency and the Queen as head of state. Like I said open to correction on that.
 

Ryan Tubbs

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I could be wrong but I thought part of the proposed Independence plan was that the Scots would keep the pound as the currency and the Queen as head of state. Like I said open to correction on that.
You're correct, the SNP have (laughably) said they would hope to keep the Pound, at least on an interim basis. They would need some form of interim currency because obviously there will be a gap between "Scotland" gaining independence, joining the EU, and joining the Euro.

I think it's virtually certain that a UK government (particularly a Tory one) would tell an independent Scotalnd to go sling their hook and establish their own currency, so keeping the Pound is a non-runner. George Osborne did float the idea of some kind of interim arrangement, but Salmond's sickening arrogance in his dealings with the UK government on the referendum date has pretty much thrown that out the window.

So the SNP want complete and total independence from England ...... but want to keep the Pound....and the Queen....and NATO.....and the nuclear bombs....
 

NYCKY

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You're correct, the SNP have (laughably) said they would hope to keep the Pound, at least on an interim basis. They would need some form of interim currency because obviously there will be a gap between "Scotland" gaining independence, joining the EU, and joining the Euro.

I think it's virtually certain that a UK government (particularly a Tory one) would tell an independent Scotalnd to go sling their hook and establish their own currency, so keeping the Pound is a non-runner. George Osborne did float the idea of some kind of interim arrangement, but Salmond's sickening arrogance in his dealings with the UK government on the referendum date has pretty much thrown that out the window.

So the SNP want complete and total independence from England ...... but want to keep the Pound....and the Queen....and NATO.....and the nuclear bombs....
Yea, it makes you kind of wondering why are they bothering and what do they hope to really achieve.
 

Tea Party Patriot

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BBC News - Scottish independence: EC's Barroso says new states need 'apply to join EU'

Manuel Barosso is talking in the context of Scotland and Catalonia, and possibly Flanders, seeking 'independence' from their current States.

This is significantly different mood-music from the European Commission/EU which has undermined the nation states of europe for years; but also brought in East Germany without any application palaver, and formerly announced that Georgia and Ukraine were welcome merely 'if they met the criteria'.

Nicola Sturgeon of the Scottish National Party counters that there is no provision for EU citizens (Rem Lisbon Treaty) to be expelled by the Union (ouch!).
A hard one to know the legalities of this as they haven't really been tested. The only precedent I know of is French Algeria which on independence remained outside the EU as Algeria.
 

blokesbloke

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Jan 13, 2011
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23,278
BBC News - Scottish independence: EC's Barroso says new states need 'apply to join EU'

Manuel Barosso is talking in the context of Scotland and Catalonia, and possibly Flanders, seeking 'independence' from their current States.

This is significantly different mood-music from the European Commission/EU which has undermined the nation states of europe for years; but also brought in East Germany without any application palaver, and formerly announced that Georgia and Ukraine were welcome merely 'if they met the criteria'.

Nicola Sturgeon of the Scottish National Party counters that there is no provision for EU citizens (Rem Lisbon Treaty) to be expelled by the Union (ouch!).
They would be expelling themselves if they voted for independence knowing it would mean their newly-formed country would not be in the EU.

Greenland left the EU - presumably as a result their citizens are no longer EU citizens.

I don't see why this is so difficult to accept. If Scotland becomes independent, then its citizens will be Scottish Citizens, not British Citizens.

Ms. Sturgeon seems to have no issue with that and isn't moaning about them being "expelled" from being British citizens.

Scotland is not a member of the EU now - nor is England, Wales or Northern Ireland. The United Kingdom is a member and therefore any country which forms part of the United Kingdom is a included in the United Kingdom's membership by default. If any country leaves membership of the United Kingdom, the EU member, then it leaves the EU at the same time and can reapply.

Of course any new member applying can be vetoed by any existing member - so London could veto Edinburgh's application and Madrid could veto Barcelona's - which I presume is what they are so scared of.

The SNP wants Scotland to be "independent" but to retain the monarchy with the Queen as Head of State, continue to use sterling if they don't fancy joining the euro, and be entitled to membership of the EU.

So little would seem to practically change it's a wonder they're even bothering.

If they're too scared of the idea of their own head of state, own currency and life outside the EU, perhaps they aren't really ready for independence at all.

Independence isn't supposed to be a matter of just picking and choosing what bits you'd like to be independent.

It is a serious business and has consequences.

The SNP seem to think the EU should just automatically accept having yet another country and yet another government to deal with, making the EU ever more unwieldy.

Just as the Scottish people have every right to decide if they want to become independent, the rest of the EU has every right to decide if they want an independent Scotland in the EU. It's not what they signed up for. Scotland will have its own agenda with what it wants from the EU and that new agenda should be subject to debate, as it is for all new applicants.

The EU voted to admit the UK as it was - it was never asked if it wanted Scotland on its own.
 

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