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New canon laws bans defection from RC Church - archdiocese


TommyO'Brien

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Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
12,222
The archdiocese of Dublin this afternoon in a press release stated that following the recent changes to canon law it will no longer be possible for individuals to formally defect from the church. However, it added that the Archdiocese intends to maintain a register to note the expressed desire of those who wish to defect.

The right to leave Catholicism has long been a fundamental right. (The official term in history for someone who left Catholicism, according to the Catholic Church, was a 'pervert'.)

Like just about everyone of my generation I went to school and college with, and work with, I am not a practising Catholic anymore. I honestly cannot name three people of my generation who are still Massgoers. I had never considered formally disengaging from Catholicism - though I have had some interest in the Church of Ireland and do know a couple of people who have left the Catholic Church to join it.

I find it appalling however that Pope Benedict XVI, having caused widespread offence by appearing to equate ordination of women with child sex abuse in terms of sanctions, not seems to have the attitude towards people who want to leave the Catholic Church of saving 'you can't. You are trapped. We will never let you leave'. So someone who may have been joined as a child to that religion, are to be debarred from as an adult leaving it.

Is it even legal under human rights to effectively trap someone in an organisation they themselves had no say in joining?

As a result of this change, organisations such as 'Count me out' that previously could enable people to leave the Catholic Church have had to stop their service as Rome sees membership of Catholicism as a type of prison from which there is no escape.

Sometimes I can only wonder what some of collective idiocy and stupidity exists in the Vatican, or are they trying to establish a world record for doing the greatest number of utterly stupid things in one year?




 
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G

Gimpanzee

What would Groucho Marx make of a club that wouldn't let you not be a member?
 

He3

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Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
17,094
You can check out anytime you want
But you can never leave



Cruimh said:
How will this affect those in Germany who are tithed direct ?
No prob for anyone over 40 - they will understand the concept cos they grew up with the Wall.
 
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M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

Aww trust the catholic church to shoot itself in the foot again. To stop masses of people leaving they simply don't allow them too anymore but keep a register of people who wish to defect.

Now all we need is a high profile court case to bring it crashing down?
 

olamp

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Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,452
Is this a joke??? If it is true it is a joke anyway! How do they propose "locking" us in ? Have these old men finally lost their marbles?
 

Chuck de Mawl

Active member
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
267
If you want to leave, leave.

Just write to them, e-mail your diocese, and perhaps send a registered letter.

Tell them you no longer wish to be identified with their organistation.

If they have trouble dealing with that concept, that's their problem.
 

Mercurial

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Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
88,215
I never really felt much motivation to formally defect. It’s a makey-uppy club and I felt formally defecting would be taking it more seriously than I should.
 

Simon.D

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Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
804
Would this contravene data protection legislation in any way?

i.e. By holding untrue information about irish citizens?
 

danger here

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Mar 9, 2010
Messages
2,586
How will this affect those in Germany who are tithed direct ?

You can only pay your taxes to the church in Germany if you declare youself to be of what ever religious denomination you wish on the form.If you leave it blank like I did nothing happens.
 
J

john moriarty

Looks like excommunication
is the only way to go now.
Maybe those Count me out
folks could draw up a list of
suitable infractions. Weeing
in the font likely wouldn't
cut it in this day & age.
 

Sync

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Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
Seeing as how a link was just too much trouble for some: CountMeOut.ie suspends service - The Irish Times - Tue, Oct 12, 2010

Last year 229 people formally defected from the Church through the Archdiocese of Dublin and 312 have done so in the year to date, according to official figures.
Yeah from a PR point they're better off just cancelling it. You don't want to see those numbers increasing any more and having to publicise how many people are formally leaving your organisation. I'm surprised there wasn't a headline "50% more people leave the Church" at some point.

“We believe that, in principle, the withdrawal of the defection procedure has implications for a person’s right to freedom of religion and association.”
Well then you're a bunch of idiots aren't you? As mentioned above, a data protection run would be interesting, although probably fruitless given what they've actually documented about you (Person X was baptised on Date X). But the idea that your rights are being infringed by this is moronic. I didn't like my local cinema. I stopped going. My local cinema's refusal to take my name off their history list doesn't impact on my right to free movement.
 

Fantasia

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Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
920
relax said the night man we are programmed to deceive
you can check out any time you like but you can never leave
 

Akrasia

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Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
1,128
Is there any possible legal way for people to charge the catholic church for the right to include their details as part of their membership?

1. Most people who were baptised were below the legal age to contract, so the catholic church can't say we have given consent to be part of their church
2. Given that powerful people have the ability to negotiate fees for others to use their 'image rights', there is clearly a law out there allowing people to charge a fee for an endorsement and the right to sue for unlawful use of someone's own 'image rights'
In every other commercial relationship that I know of, if someone asks to be removed from a list or disassociated with an organisation, that organisation must comply with that request. Why should the RC church be different?

If they don't want to voluntarily remove people from their register, we should be allowed to charge them a fee for the use of our image rights. I think I'm worth a few million a year. If they're not prepared to pay, they can remove me from their advertising campaign
 

A Time for Every Purpose

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
391
I think most people willl just ignore it.
In France there is no such thing.
He [the pope] is a silly old man,and instead of being able to rehabilitate the church he will kill it .
In his youth he appeared to have considerable intellectual gifts,but they have been replaced by an extraordinary facility to get it wrong most of the time.
Sad ,really.
 

Mercurial

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Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
88,215
Would this contravene data protection legislation in any way?

i.e. By holding untrue information about irish citizens?
Even if it were illegal to hold untrue information about irish citizens (???) I don't see how it could apply, unless you haven't actually been baptised. The records are of baptism, not of whether or not the person wants to be a member of the church.
 
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