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New Climate Bill to have no targets other than Ireland achieve carbon neutrality by 2050


Pat Gill

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New Climate Bill to have no targets other than Ireland achieve carbon neutrality by 2050.

Minister Hogan is to present the heads of the new Climate Bill to the government today, with legislation due by the end of the year. A cynical exercise or might such a bill which included real supports for private enterprise engagement actually work better than a target based approach.

The government acknowledge that EU climate legislation and targets are binding in this country so adding more targets could be said to be superflous.

Ireland has already performed excellently in the wind energy business yet Ireland had the least amount of feed in tariff support for Irish wind farms in Europe.

The Dublin Greenway Cluster and similar initiatives throughout the country has already brought significant jobs and companies to Ireland in the cleantech industrial sector both domestic and FDI.

By allowing Irish business to find the most profitable methods of dealing with climate issues, is it possible that evenif this is a cynical exercise might it backfire on the government and turn out to be a far more effective measure than simply laying down targets without developing the measures required to meet them.

The Irish Times had this to say New climate Bill to set no binding CO2 targets - The Irish Times - Mon, Feb 11, 2013
 
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Con Gallagher

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So the State will support private enterprise, but face zero sanction if/when it fails to meet those targets? Without ambitious (but achievable) binding targets, it sounds like a way of just subsidising donors to political parties and landowners.

What about this?
Pass Labour’s Climate Change Bill to set legally
binding carbon reduction targets in line with
EU targets
http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_election_manifesto_2011.pdf
 

Pat Gill

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So the State will support private enterprise, but face zero sanction if/when it fails to meet those targets? Without ambitious (but achievable) binding targets, it sounds like a way of just subsidising donors to political parties and landowners.

What about this?

http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_election_manifesto_2011.pdf
It will indeed be interesting how Labour votes in todays debate.

It is also true to say that the most effective way to fight climate change issues is to make the methods of achieving the measures necessary profitable and that needs the active participation of private industry.
 

southwestkerry

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Well Pat as a die in the wool capitalist right wing loony I can safely say... as long as their is some money to be made in it the masses [Ok about 2% of them] will follow.
As for laying down targets... its ok as long as they are realistic.
Swk
 
D

Dylan2010

do we not get credit for the fact that we will be exporting the next generation for the next 20 or 30 years. The population of this country could go to 10k and these clowns would think up ways of punishing people for living.
 

Pat Gill

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Well Pat as a die in the wool capitalist right wing loony I can safely say... as long as their is some money to be made in it the masses [Ok about 2% of them] will follow.
As for laying down targets... its ok as long as they are realistic.
Swk
The success of the Greenway could be regarded as the pilot study and the increasing cost of Business As Usual fossil fuels should be an incentive. Oil and gas have quadrupled in price in the last decade.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Oops thanks SIL, if there is a mod around they might amend it, it should finish other than Ireland achieve carbon neutrality by 2050.
You'll need a R in tagets, as well :)

If you want mods to change it, you'll have to click the report button on your OP and request it that way.
 

southwestkerry

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The success of the Greenway could be regarded as the pilot study and the increasing cost of Business As Usual fossil fuels should be an incentive. Oil and gas have quadrupled in price in the last decade.
I agree, oil and gas will keep going up but on account of profit as much as decreasing supply. As I tried in vain to start a campaign for about 8-10 years back for LPG conversions on big petrol using motors in the hope LPG would reach a level like that in the UK. No interest from any one at all. Even though it would with help [and a public awareness campaign] reduce petrol uses.
 

Samell

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With all the gales we've had over the last month or so we should have had lots of free power,..... oh wait it was the wrong sort of wind and it just broke a few turbines.

We need to seriously look into the whole business of wind power as climate change has altered a lot of weather patterns and locations identified 10 years ago may no longer be suitable.

With all the water we have we should look into hydro more, but that doesn't look nice or floods valleys where a frog was seen last century.

Why can't we put small turbines in the water mains there is some pressure there?

Nuclear is a way forward now that we no longer need to build plants that produce material for weapons. We have kicked the can of pollution from fossil fuels down the road for over a century, given the levies on other fuels for research we should be able to come up with a way to sort out the waste.

DO NOT mention Chernobyl and Fukushima as arguments against the nuclear option as the mentality of the old Soviet state does not apply here and I can't remember the last time Ireland was rocked by an earthquake or flooded by a tsunami.
 

Thomaso12

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With all the gales we've had over the last month or so we should have had lots of free power,..... oh wait it was the wrong sort of wind and it just broke a few turbines.

We need to seriously look into the whole business of wind power as climate change has altered a lot of weather patterns and locations identified 10 years ago may no longer be suitable.

With all the water we have we should look into hydro more, but that doesn't look nice or floods valleys where a frog was seen last century.

Why can't we put small turbines in the water mains there is some pressure there?

Nuclear is a way forward now that we no longer need to build plants that produce material for weapons. We have kicked the can of pollution from fossil fuels down the road for over a century, given the levies on other fuels for research we should be able to come up with a way to sort out the waste.

DO NOT mention Chernobyl and Fukushima as arguments against the nuclear option as the mentality of the old Soviet state does not apply here and I can't remember the last time Ireland was rocked by an earthquake or flooded by a tsunami.
Well Nuclear might be helpful but it would produce a ton of radiation and we would need places to dump it, but we could always try chlorophyll based solar panels to harvest solar power which would be much more effective and mostly guaranteed to work.

The idea of wind turbines placed in the sea is good and would mostly make less noise pollution and generate more power but would have higher maintence costs due to it being at sea.

Final idea would be biomass power from turning plants into power but it would require vast fields of plants to use and the power output would be hard to tell.
 

Pat Gill

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With all the gales we've had over the last month or so we should have had lots of free power,..... oh wait it was the wrong sort of wind and it just broke a few turbines.

We need to seriously look into the whole business of wind power as climate change has altered a lot of weather patterns and locations identified 10 years ago may no longer be suitable.
I have already explained the why's of this here http://www.politics.ie/forum/environment/137025-kevin-myers-wind-power-todays-sindo-31-08-2010-a-634.html#post6405753

With all the water we have we should look into hydro more, but that doesn't look nice or floods valleys where a frog was seen last century.
Every form of energy production has environmental impacts.

Why can't we put small turbines in the water mains there is some pressure there?
Not viable at present energy demands and probably not viable because of the laws of thermodynamics.

Nuclear is a way forward now that we no longer need to build plants that produce material for weapons. We have kicked the can of pollution from fossil fuels down the road for over a century, given the levies on other fuels for research we should be able to come up with a way to sort out the waste.

DO NOT mention Chernobyl and Fukushima as arguments against the nuclear option as the mentality of the old Soviet state does not apply here and I can't remember the last time Ireland was rocked by an earthquake or flooded by a tsunami.
Nuclear should be re examined as its tech develops away from the plutonium cycle but it remains extremely expensive.
 

turfman

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I agree, oil and gas will keep going up but on account of profit as much as decreasing supply. As I tried in vain to start a campaign for about 8-10 years back for LPG conversions on big petrol using motors in the hope LPG would reach a level like that in the UK. No interest from any one at all. Even though it would with help [and a public awareness campaign] reduce petrol uses.
Cars were run for many years in this country on LPG.
 

cottage_economist

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I looked into LPG around year 2000, as friends in UK converted their cars and swore by it. There were supposed to be 3 outlets in Mayo, but visiting them revealed that they had stopped stocking it.

I never understood why it didn't catch on here, given the greater annual mileage covered by most motorists.
 

turfman

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I looked into LPG around year 2000, as friends in UK converted their cars and swore by it. There were supposed to be 3 outlets in Mayo, but visiting them revealed that they had stopped stocking it.

I never understood why it didn't catch on here, given the greater annual mileage covered by most motorists.
I ran many cars on it.the cars with aluminium heads ran better on it as they were more suited to hotter running.i liked it because converting didn't involve an engine change as did diesel conversions from petrol.a flick of a switch brought you back to petrol.The introduction of fuel injection petrol engines spelt the end for LPG conversions.
 

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