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New Garda Drive to Defeat City Drug Scourge


Abacus

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Jan 23, 2008
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Media reports big Garda drive to cleanup the criminal drug trade. Dozens arrested and some seizures made. Some charges to follow. Drug dealers in retreat.
But hang on a minute......haven't we been here before.....several times ?
To what effect.....?
 


Baron von Biffo

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May 16, 2007
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Media reports big Garda drive to cleanup the criminal drug trade. Dozens arrested and some seizures made. Some charges to follow. Drug dealers in retreat.
But hang on a minute......haven't we been here before.....several times ?
To what effect.....?
Yip, here and all over the world. It may bump up the price of street drugs for a while (with consequent increase in associated crimes) and by means of Criminal Darwinism it will select for a slightly more efficient (and probably more ruthless) species of drug dealer.

Prohibition doesn't work.
 

Mossy Heneberry

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Yip, here and all over the world. It may bump up the price of street drugs for a while (with consequent increase in associated crimes) and by means of Criminal Darwinism it will select for a slightly more efficient (and probably more ruthless) species of drug dealer.

Prohibition doesn't work.
Have to agree with you Baron, the war on drugs is a contradiction in and of itself for the very reasons you've stated. That's why it simply can't be won.
 
Last edited:

EvotingMachine0197

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Piddling against the wind. Millions spent on bringing in a few dozen dealers who will probably be replaced before tea-time.
 

mr_anderson

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I think the government should supply free heroin to registered users.
This would immediately reduce crime, as the users would not have to commit it in order to pay for the drug, but also blow the pushers out of the water as there would be no need to pay for it.

I know it can't be that simple.

What am I missing ?
 

asset test

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Oct 3, 2008
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They are on the case!

RTÉ News: 35 arrests in Dublin drugs operation

Cannabis at least should be legalised. The amount of money spent on targetting dealers for this relatively harmless (I await the howls of disagreement on that one), drug is laughable.

If one could buy it legally what would the dealers do? Reduce the price I suppose.

The war on drugs is an impossible one. However, Portugal has legalised Class A drugs with significant success, and the dealing and general scumbaggery associated with it has reduced significantly as a result, as have rates of HIV.

5 Years After: Portugal's Drug Decriminalization Policy Shows Positive Results: Scientific American

While the cops are only doing their job on this, because illegal drugs are, well... illegal, I suspect a lot of this is optics as a result of the revulsion many feel seeing the open dealing and awful behaviour of the strung out on the main streets of Dublin and I'm sure other cities and towns.

Dermot Ahern must be kicking ass somewhere, but he would be better off taking the Gulfstream to Lisbon, and learning some valuable lessons from another PIIGS country.

Why has the Portuguese experiment in legalisation of drugs not been debated in this country?
 

Baron von Biffo

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I think the government should supply free heroin to registered users.
This would immediately reduce crime, as the users would not have to commit it in order to pay for the drug, but also blow the pushers out of the water as there would be no need to pay for it.

I know it can't be that simple.

What am I missing ?
Many of the bottom tier of pushers are dealing to supply their own habit so if you remove that need you remove the pressure on them to recruit new users.
 

EvotingMachine0197

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I think the government should supply free heroin to registered users.
This would immediately reduce crime, as the users would not have to commit it in order to pay for the drug, but also blow the pushers out of the water as there would be no need to pay for it.

I know it can't be that simple.

What am I missing ?
And less people would die as the quality could be controlled. And the cost pf policing and prosecuting would fall dramatically.

The tricky bit is finding some legislators who see this route as a valid alternative and who also have the courage to go about implementing it. It certainly would not be easy.
 

iartaoiseach

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Have to agree with you Baron, the war on drugs is a contradiction in and of itself for the very reasons you've stated. That's why it simply can't be won.
At the end the film 'Traffic' the Michael Douglas character (the drug czar) walks off the podium where he was meant to give his 'we're winning the war' speech saying 'how can we declare war on our own families' . now I realize it's only a movie but that statement makes more sense than any utterance I've yet heard from a succession of ministers for justice. the character also had more courage than any of them. D Ahern in particular strikes me as ignorant in the extreme. Fachtna Murphy isn't far behind him if his comments on various news bulletins is anything to go by.
 

iartaoiseach

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They are on the case!

RTÉ News: 35 arrests in Dublin drugs operation

Cannabis at least should be legalised. The amount of money spent on targetting dealers for this relatively harmless (I await the howls of disagreement on that one), drug is laughable.

If one could buy it legally what would the dealers do? Reduce the price I suppose.

The war on drugs is an impossible one. However, Portugal has legalised Class A drugs with significant success, and the dealing and general scumbaggery associated with it has reduced significantly as a result, as have rates of HIV.

5 Years After: Portugal's Drug Decriminalization Policy Shows Positive Results: Scientific American

While the cops are only doing their job on this, because illegal drugs are, well... illegal, I suspect a lot of this is optics as a result of the revulsion many feel seeing the open dealing and awful behaviour of the strung out on the main streets of Dublin and I'm sure other cities and towns.

Dermot Ahern must be kicking ass somewhere, but he would be better off taking the Gulfstream to Lisbon, and learning some valuable lessons from another PIIGS country.

Why has the Portuguese experiment in legalisation of drugs not been debated in this country?
because we have a gutless shower of ignorami running the show here. they care not jot for peoples health as evidenced by the whole drug 'policy' here. it's backwards we are going. other countries are thinking progressively but who do we ape? the regressive ones. bravo.
 

Wakeupcall

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Jan 7, 2009
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Yip, here and all over the world. It may bump up the price of street drugs for a while (with consequent increase in associated crimes) and by means of Criminal Darwinism it will select for a slightly more efficient (and probably more ruthless) species of drug dealer.

Prohibition doesn't work.
+1

Prohibition is a waste of time and a detriment to society as a whole.
 

bob3344

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Dec 5, 2007
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Dermot Ahern must be kicking ass somewhere, but he would be better off taking the Gulfstream to Lisbon, and learning some valuable lessons from another PIIGS country.

Why has the Portuguese experiment in legalisation of drugs not been debated in this country?
Ahern is a fkn joke, good for something as ridiculous as blasphemy legislation, or impressing ignorant radio listeners by banning head shops.

When it comes to a genuine threat to public safety like larry murphy - what does Dermot do ? Sweet fk all, but then maybe he's too busy doing his dirty harry impersonation on a few small time drug dealers. Spare me, the guy's a joke
 

iartaoiseach

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+1

Prohibition is a waste of time and a detriment to society as a whole.
It doesn't help when our politicians themselves are so badly educated about drugs(and they don't want to learn either). during the headshop 'debate' a FG counciller was on the last word. His name escapes me but he is on the policing advisory board for dublin. The guy really hadn't a clue. he contradicted himself, spouted all sorts of nonsense about gateways etc. the problem imo was he was allowed to do it by the presenter without ever being challenged properly. on any other issue it seems facts are required but because drugs are illegal people can tell lies on TV and radio without being challenged. this imo is down to fear if someone is pro-legalization then they are seen as some sort of nut who is pro-drugs and anti society. until another generation kicks the bucket I fear nothing will change.
 

iartaoiseach

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Ahern is a fkn joke, good for something as ridiculous as blasphemy legislation, or impressing ignorant radio listeners by banning head shops.

When it comes to a genuine threat to public safety like larry murphy - what does Dermot do ? Sweet fk all, but then maybe he's too busy doing his dirty harry impersonation on a few small time drug dealers. Spare me, the guy's a joke
too right. and he is not alone. the opposition are just as bad in the main.
 

asset test

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too right. and he is not alone. the opposition are just as bad in the main.
But the opposition cannot DO anything about changing things.

If Dermot Ahern got up from his knees in his local blasphemy free church, and smelled the roses, tasted the coffee, and lived in the real world, things might be better.

The irony that he represents an area that was (and possible still is) rife with smuggling, extortion, and a general lack of respect for the law, makes his blinkered stance all the more incredible really.

The amount of smuggled cigarettes discovered in his part of the world is mind boggling.
 

Abacus

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Aren't our prisons already full of drugdealers so what does that prove ?
The addicts were not cured and dealing didn't stop, right ?
But out of it, there would be new opportunities for junior dealers, right ?
Hardly a positive, now is it ?
 

mr_anderson

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I completely lost whatever faith (no pun intended) in Ahern with the blasphemy law.
As far as I'm concerned, it was soley introduced in an effort to make FF appeal to fundamentalist catholic voters.

I realise FF are desperate and would bend over to the taliban if it meant a few votes, but to bring in a law in this day and age which goes against one of the most important tenets of our society, free speech, proved to me the depths to which FF will go to buy votes.

For the good of the nation, they really must be wiped out as a party.

Sorry for the off-topic rant.
 

EvotingMachine0197

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Aren't our prisons already full of drugdealers so what does that prove ?
It proves nothing.
The addicts were not cured and dealing didn't stop, right ?
Right.
But out of it, there would be new opportunities for junior dealers, right ?
Right
Hardly a positive, now is it ?
No. Not really. In fact, it's just a waste of time, money and effort.

Looking at it in financial terms, if the cost of arresting and prosecuting these few dozen dealers were considered an investment on behalf of society, the return would be zero, or less than zero.
 

iartaoiseach

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But the opposition cannot DO anything about changing things.

If Dermot Ahern got up from his knees in his local blasphemy free church, and smelled the roses, tasted the coffee, and lived in the real world, things might be better.

The irony that he represents an area that was (and possible still is) rife with smuggling, extortion, and a general lack of respect for the law, makes his blinkered stance all the more incredible really.

The amount of smuggled cigarettes discovered in his part of the world is mind boggling.
I know that they can't do anything. It's just disheartening to see that there really is no alternative to the FF attitude. if only one of them would have the balls to say something new they might get a few votes from the likes of me. It is disappointing to see that they backed ahern on his idiocy re the headshops. It doesn't bode well for the future when they are all of the same mind. Luke Flanagan is the only one who makes any sense on this and many other issues. as for ahern I haven't the words.
 

asset test

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I know that they can't do anything. It's just disheartening to see that there really is no alternative to the FF attitude. if only one of them would have the balls to say something new they might get a few votes from the likes of me. It is disappointing to see that they backed ahern on his idiocy re the headshops. It doesn't bode well for the future when they are all of the same mind. Luke Flanagan is the only one who makes any sense on this and many other issues.
OK I see where you're coming from. And yes, a fresh voice of reason in the drugs debate would be very welcome.

I think they fear that any move towards legalisation might (in the minds of those proposing it), provoke a knee jerk reaction from middle Ireland. If they only knew. My mother is in her 70s and she has often said the addicts should be given the heroin for free! Now there you are. But then again, she NEVER in her life voted FF. Many others but never them.

Anyway, I fail to see why legalisation, or decriminalisation could be any worse than the present situation. Is there a moral/Catholic reason for not making it legal I wonder? It is a sin after all in some minds to take drugs in the first place isn't it? Oh I thump my head at all this ****************************************.

This government allowed kiddy fiddlers to rape children, they have allowed the economy to go into freefall, and many other atrocities in our name, but they will not go ONE step to help rid us of organised drug crime. I despair. Really I do sometimes.
 

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