New Garda Drive to Defeat City Drug Scourge



Éireann go Brách

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May 17, 2010
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1,546
At the end the film 'Traffic' the Michael Douglas character (the drug czar) walks off the podium where he was meant to give his 'we're winning the war' speech saying 'how can we declare war on our own families' . now I realize it's only a movie but that statement makes more sense than any utterance I've yet heard from a succession of ministers for justice. the character also had more courage than any of them. D Ahern in particular strikes me as ignorant in the extreme. Fachtna Murphy isn't far behind him if his comments on various news bulletins is anything to go by.
Brillant movie, traffic

Theres a great scene in it where Michael Douglas character (the drug czar)
is meeting his staff for the first time
for a briefing and afterwards he asks them to "think outside the box" about solutions to the drug problem, and theres just a awkward silence
in the room.
 

iartaoiseach

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Jan 30, 2009
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1,225
OK I see where you're coming from. And yes, a fresh voice of reason in the drugs debate would be very welcome.

I think they fear that any move towards legalisation might (in the minds of those proposing it), provoke a knee jerk reaction from middle Ireland. If they only knew. My mother is in her 70s and she has often said the addicts should be given the heroin for free! Now there you are. But then again, she NEVER in her life voted FF. Many others but never them.

Anyway, I fail to see why legalisation, or decriminalisation could be any worse than the present situation. Is there a moral/Catholic reason for not making it legal I wonder? It is a sin after all in some minds to take drugs in the first place isn't it? Oh I thump my head at all this ****************************************.

This government allowed kiddy fiddlers to rape children, they have allowed the economy to go into freefall, and many other atrocities in our name, but they will not go ONE step to help rid us of organised drug crime. I despair. Really I do sometimes.
you hit it on the head there. they think they are morally superior to us plebs and we need to be force fed their morals. and they are afraid. fear bred of pig ignorance. the UK has the same problem. Professor David Nutt resigned because of Labour's pig headed refusal to face facts re cannabis and e and levels of harm. these morons would rather listen to the hysteria of the likes of Grainne Kenny than the reasoned arguments of the many informed folks that are out there.

I am consistently stunned by the sentencing here. like you said some one like larry murphy gets 10 yrs for a despicable violent crime. I guarantee if some poor fecker was caught with a carload of weed he'd get round about the same. unbelievable stuff altogether. By the way my parents would also like to see the weed freed and they are in their 60's. there are reasonable people in this country but as with all other things they are kept out of positions of influence by the philistines.
 

iartaoiseach

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Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,225
Brillant movie, traffic

Theres a great scene in it where Michael Douglas character (the drug czar)
is meeting his staff for the first time
for a briefing and afterwards he asks them to "think outside the box" about solutions to the drug problem, and theres just a awkward silence
in the room.
It is a good case study of the drugs business alright- I've heard the original UK series beats it though. pity the likes of Ahern wouldn't take a look and maybe learn a thing or two.
 

Catalpa

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Jun 10, 2004
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10,257
I think the government should supply free heroin to registered users.
This would immediately reduce crime, as the users would not have to commit it in order to pay for the drug, but also blow the pushers out of the water as there would be no need to pay for it.

I know it can't be that simple.

What am I missing ?
The number of heroin addicts would mushroom within months with huge huge social problems following....

Also we would become a magnet for 'Drug Immigration'

Mad idea!:rolleyes:


Lock up the addicts and hang the high level pushers/dealers.

End of...:evil:
 

Furze

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Jun 14, 2007
Messages
777
I must say that I've had a change of mind on this whole topic.
Legalise the lot - register the users - dispense via pharmacies at minimal cost to users.
 

Abacus

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Jan 23, 2008
Messages
758
Drug dealers and addicts are at war with the world.
Penalties designed to penetrate into their consciousness are and always will be, a complete waste of time.
The only penalties that will give a pay-back to society are those penalties that will or could have a limiting effect on the lifestyle of the offender. There are some new initiatives that could be tried there.

What about taking their Passports ?
What about taking their Driving Licences ?
What about a Public Register of Drug Convicts after three strikes....available for scrutiny on the Internet ? This would be a huge help to law enforcers abroad when dealing with the drug dealing chameleons of the drug underworld.
What about tagging..... ? Yeah, what about tagging ? This has been in operation abroad for years so there should be no testing/introductory period. It's regarded abroad as one of the best life-style crampers possible !
What about compulsory drug tests say every month extending to longer periods as credit is gained ?
What about a ban from employment such as driving taxis, working with transport companies or security companies ? etc, etc.
Let's call them societal punishments.

What this type of approach brings home to erring individuals is that they have chosen to live outside the norms of society and that's a tough place to be. (Fairly tough to live within it at times too !!!.
Just like the economy, we are in a desperate situation regarding drugs and crime.
So why do we stick so religiously (UH oh !) to what has not worked ?
Why not apply pressure that brings with it because of the nature of the sanction, some remedial action that is inherent in the terms of the punishment ?
 

typical

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Jul 8, 2010
Messages
575
What this type of approach brings home to erring individuals is that they have chosen to live outside the norms of society and that's a tough place to be.
So you're suggesting we remove a whole heap of civil liberties from people because they're doing something you don't like. Don't you think that's a touch self righteous?

How about you explain why it's any of your business what anyone else does to get their kicks?

I hope to god we look back at this horrible moral legislation in 20 years with the same disgust we now regard Magdalene laundries and industrial schools.
 

Baron von Biffo

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May 16, 2007
Messages
12,071
Drug dealers and addicts are at war with the world.
Penalties designed to penetrate into their consciousness are and always will be, a complete waste of time.
The only penalties that will give a pay-back to society are those penalties that will or could have a limiting effect on the lifestyle of the offender. There are some new initiatives that could be tried there.

What about taking their Passports ?
What about taking their Driving Licences ?
What about a Public Register of Drug Convicts after three strikes....available for scrutiny on the Internet ? This would be a huge help to law enforcers abroad when dealing with the drug dealing chameleons of the drug underworld.
What about tagging..... ? Yeah, what about tagging ? This has been in operation abroad for years so there should be no testing/introductory period. It's regarded abroad as one of the best life-style crampers possible !
What about compulsory drug tests say every month extending to longer periods as credit is gained ?
What about a ban from employment such as driving taxis, working with transport companies or security companies ? etc, etc.
Let's call them societal punishments.

What this type of approach brings home to erring individuals is that they have chosen to live outside the norms of society and that's a tough place to be. (Fairly tough to live within it at times too !!!.
Just like the economy, we are in a desperate situation regarding drugs and crime.
So why do we stick so religiously (UH oh !) to what has not worked ?
Why not apply pressure that brings with it because of the nature of the sanction, some remedial action that is inherent in the terms of the punishment ?
Do you honestly believe that someone who wakes up in a squat covered in puke and who proceeds to use a dirty needle to inject himself in the groin with an unknown substance he bought from a criminal will turn his life around out of fear he wont be able to get a taxi licence?
 

Abacus

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Jan 23, 2008
Messages
758
So you're suggesting we remove a whole heap of civil liberties from people because they're doing something you don't like. Don't you think that's a touch self righteous?

How about you explain why it's any of your business what anyone else does to get their kicks?

I hope to god we look back at this horrible moral legislation in 20 years with the same disgust we now regard Magdalene laundries and industrial schools.
I'm looking for better options, that's what's what I'm about.
My suggested curtailing of civil liberties is aimed at DRUG OFFENDERS as a means of curtailing their activities. People outside that category in this instance would have little to worry about. If this suggestion of curtailment is so heart rending, it kinda falls short when compared with the fact that as a society we seem perfectly content to lock them up in ever increasing numbers ad infinitum. My suggestion would allow them freedom with certain reservations designed to limit their criminal proclivities (as adjudged by societal norms) whereas locking them up removes all their rights in the outside world with only the prison regime to sustain them. Anyway, my suggestions are only stop-gap and will provide no permanent solution. Just a different way of dealing with it and the possibility of bringing about an improvement.

About the 20 years view.....in 20 years we will have an entirely different application of the law to drugs users/abusers driven by EU directives. By then we will have got over our Shengen reservations having been forced by Brussels to find solutions and the democratic mandate will give Irish governments, whoever they may be, to crack down heavily on the drug gangsters. By then it will be accepted that unless the gangs are driven back ruthlessly, they will, as in South America, be a threat to democracy. That consideration would give a lot of leeway to our legislators.
 

DJCB33

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Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
166
Drug dealers and addicts are at war with the world.
Penalties designed to penetrate into their consciousness are and always will be, a complete waste of time.
The only penalties that will give a pay-back to society are those penalties that will or could have a limiting effect on the lifestyle of the offender. There are some new initiatives that could be tried there.

What about taking their Passports ?
What about taking their Driving Licences ?
What about a Public Register of Drug Convicts after three strikes....available for scrutiny on the Internet ? This would be a huge help to law enforcers abroad when dealing with the drug dealing chameleons of the drug underworld.
What about tagging..... ? Yeah, what about tagging ? This has been in operation abroad for years so there should be no testing/introductory period. It's regarded abroad as one of the best life-style crampers possible !
What about compulsory drug tests say every month extending to longer periods as credit is gained ?
What about a ban from employment such as driving taxis, working with transport companies or security companies ? etc, etc.
Let's call them societal punishments.

What this type of approach brings home to erring individuals is that they have chosen to live outside the norms of society and that's a tough place to be. (Fairly tough to live within it at times too !!!.
Just like the economy, we are in a desperate situation regarding drugs and crime.
So why do we stick so religiously (UH oh !) to what has not worked ?
Why not apply pressure that brings with it because of the nature of the sanction, some remedial action that is inherent in the terms of the punishment ?


In a lot of cases addicts are ex communicated by their families and friends, i don't mean fall out with them I mean completely no contact ever again with the people at one time they were closes too, if that doesn't keep them away from the needle your suggested deterrents wouldn't either. Nothing will. Legislation is the best way to keep the rest of us safe, many would have to give up the hand wringing and moralising but I think that's a price worth paying.
 

Ramzi Nohra

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Jul 25, 2006
Messages
539
" THE only penalties that will give a pay-back to society ..."

How has a drug-user harmed society simply by taking drugs? Assuming they havent stolen etc (which are other, punishable, crimes), how is smoking dope in your own house hurting society?

Drug prohibition is the most failed social policy of the 20th to 21st century. People who support prohibition are enriching some of the most ruthless criminals on the planet, as well as showing an absolutely fascistic desire to stop people living their own lives.

Why are we tolerating a situation where the state can tell you what to do in your own home to enjoy yourself without effecting other people?
 

Abacus

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Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
758
Time to give this old thread a rerun if for no better reason than the fact that we have had a heck of a lot of law enforcement activities in recent times in the 'War on Drugs'. In fact truth to tell, we have had almost a full five years of the most trenchant 'War on Drugs'. Taking the current situation as it is, P.ie readers can judge for themselves just how much progress is discernible following five relentless years of drug busts, arrests, trials, lockups, suspended sentences, CAB yields, and seizures.

The end must surely be in sight with all that success now, musn't it ? I mean if resources are being poured in on that scale via the Guards, Customs and Navy, we would expect to get on top of drug criminality soon. Just look at what has been achieved in Mexico, the USA, Brazil, etc through relentlessly tough law enforcement and we are following the same route which must be OK because it's tried and trusted.

Wonder if all that talk of 'street values' which are always extraordinarily high doesn't excite criminal minds with the expectation that they will all be millionaires shortly....all they have to do is find a few more haybarns and cellars somewhere and it's four crops a year.

Some Garda people have opined that all drug producing gangs operate on the basis that two of every three of their 'grow houses' will be discovered but with profit margins as high as they are getting one in three to harves/market will be rewarded with sybaritic delights galore.

Only 10% of illegal drugs get detected though so we must have an awful lot of stoned people as well as millionaires.

My question is this though......how much longer should we respond as we do to drugs criminality because continuance of present policies will give rise to a dangerous erosion of respect for the entire rule of law ?
 


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