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New National Children's Hospital in doubt


KingKane

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The Children's hospital at Crumlin is pulling out of the National Children's hospital to be based at the Mater

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=CWSNCWSNQLID

It was also featured in Primetime tonight.

There are major issues with the handling of this issue.

Firstly, why are we not told in detail about why the Mater site was chosen at all.

I'm curious about how this facility is going to be 'world class' the HSE's own words when the research facility will be less than 2% the size of the Children's Hospital in Toronto. Again the HSE's own words

Since much of the new hospital is to be built in the car park of the Mater where are the existing cars going to go? Will people who currently access the adult Mater hospital start flying in? And where will people bringing their children for treatment park? Because the suggestion that people will use public transport is the stuff of someone who does not understand urban planning or transpot issues in Dublin. I lived very close to the Mater for a number of years and the idea that it is a suitable site for this type of expansion is barmy.

Anyone living in Dublin will find accessing the Mater seriously problematic.
And people from outside of Dublin will drive to a station to get a train, then a Luas outside Heuston or Connolly, then a Metro to access the hospital and up escaltors again. This kind of terkking is almost farcial if it were not for the people at the heart of this. Critically ill children.

Explain to us Prof. Drumm how a family will a sick child will get on the Luas at Heuston when it so full most of time that the operator is jacking up prices to scalp rush hour travellers. Parents who then have to exit the Luas and travel down escalators into a Metro station right in the heart of Dublin.

And how about getting seat on a train into Dublin that is suitable for sick child or wheelchair users on an intercity stock that has seats that are completely imobile. And how much of the country is even serviced by a rail network.

If I was being purely political about this I'd be suggesting that near Beaumont was the place for this facility, but I think that the site suggested in the summer by the private group close to Tallaght hospital (as being proximate to an adult hospital was a key aspect according to the McKinsey report). It is close to the N7, and the upgraded M50 and the Luas. Why not build it there?

And why is Harney neither leading the charge to support this on Primetime or listening to what people are saying?
 


hiding behind a poster

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Well its like this, KK -


1) Building something "world class" doesn't mean actually making it "world class". Its just a soundbite, there to impress people - its effectively undefineable.

2) Noted Brendan Drumm on Prime Time resolutely ignoring the point made about people coming up from outside Dublin to the hospital - instead he just droned on about the Luas.

3) Caught Drumm committing the cardinal sin of looking at his watch while the excellent Finn Breathnach was talking. Not a good move.
 

Deep Throat

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Bad night for the Govt. This is one issue they cant afford to take a hit on.
Also, Hanafin came across very badly on Primetime, when speaking on education for autistic children.
 

pfkf

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what amazes me is that FF/PD's are quite happy to buy a piece of land in North county Dublin for 3 times it's actual value for a bunch of prisoners, However when it comes to the health of the children of the nation they are quite happy to shove them into a small hospital with no parking facilities, no room for expansion and facilities for parents to stay over night with thier children.

I must say fair play to crumlin hospital, the only reason why that hospital was chosen was because it is Ahern's constituency, why don't this government ever get their priorities right. Roll on June, Roll out FF/PD
 

White Horse

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Well done Crumlin.

It is time people stood up to FF stroke politics. The childrens hospital is being built in Dublin city centre to create employment in Ahern's constituency.

It should be built in the midlands.
 

drjimryan

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Hi all..I too find the decision very strange indeed........personally I cannot see why anyone would rekon on the Mater site....and then its ethos.................Should right wing catholics ever again be trusted?....I think not........

This whole thing STINKS of BERTIEISM.................

Come clean Prof Drum...show the figures or start again......

Well done crumlin........
 

cllr

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Oisin Quinn was excellent on this issue on Morning Ireland this morning.
 

salt

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White Horse said:
Well done Crumlin.

It is time people stood up to FF stroke politics. The childrens hospital is being built in Dublin city centre to create employment in Ahern's constituency.

It should be built in the midlands.
Are you ****ing mad,A decision was made by government. All this talk of Bertie getting it in his constituency is baseless.

Harney has backed it and she wouldnt allow to go to Berties constituency for the sake of it.

The board of Crumlin are a disgrace,they are looking after their own jobs.

At the end of the day its is the Children who are the most important,not the workers.Unlike the Labour party mentality the hospital wasnt set up to keep their union pals in jobs.

The opposition should stop using this as a political football to get elected,eg Brian Hayes.

They give out about stalling on decisions in government,heres one that was made so stick by it.
 

CrockerJarman

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This is a major disaster in the making for the Government.

Watch the Bought Man try and squirm out of this one.
 

CrockerJarman

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salt said:
Will FG and Labour reverse this decision if in govt?
I don't know Salt.

FG has asked the Tanaiste publish her "score card" with regard to the competing locations so we can all have a proper debate on this. In the absence of this vouched analysis we're all whistling in the dark a bit on this and the assertion that this decision was based on the parish pump motives of the Taoiseach gathers speed.
 

rover

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two kind of shocking facts i just discovered from the pat kenny show

1) there were NO paediatricians on the study group which made this decision :shock:

2) the fact that the metro line stops there is being trumpted as a major factor in the decision........even though the metro decision was made AFTER the hospital one :? :?

salt and all the government hacks might like to explain those two doozies
 

The OD

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As Donald Sutherlands character said to Kevin Costners Jim Garrison in the Oliver Stone Movie JFK, first you need to see who profits from this.

The most obvious person is of course Bertie, but sure isnt Bertie a decent 'aul skin? Now I would never suggest that this could be based upon the Taoiseachs own snivelling agenda - far from it..........

So who else will profit from this decision?

Answers on the back of an operation cancellation letter for long overdue paediatric surgery........
 

michael1965

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CrockerJarman said:
salt said:
Will FG and Labour reverse this decision if in govt?
I don't know Salt.

FG has asked the Tanaiste publish her "score card" with regard to the competing locations so we can all have a proper debate on this. In the absence of this vouched analysis we're all whistling in the dark a bit on this and the assertion that this decision was based on the parish pump motives of the Taoiseach gathers speed.
That is true. In this age of supposed transparency, it is crazy not to publish the study. It happens in all other areas of the public sector. In the absence of this information, it is reasonable to suppose that political pressures played a role.

Obviously, the big question is accessibility, and while it's clear that any medium to high rise development on the Mater site can include car-parking, I'd like to know how much car parking they have allowed for, and whether it is aready included in the 100,000 sq m of space they say the site can take.
 

salt

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The OD said:
As Donald Sutherlands character said to Kevin Costners Jim Garrison in the Oliver Stone Movie JFK, first you need to see who profits from this.

The most obvious person is of course Bertie, but sure isnt Bertie a decent 'aul skin? Now I would never suggest that this could be based upon the Taoiseachs own snivelling agenda - far from it..........

So who else will profit from this decision?

Answers on the back of an operation cancellation letter for long overdue paediatric surgery........
Maybe just maybe children through ahigh standard of heatlth care.

Thought that was the purpose.

Or in some minds of the posters here Mary and Bertie say down and looked at what they could move into his constituency :roll:
 

KingKane

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The other thing is the 100,000 sq metre figure. I'm sure the Prof is a bright man but he obviously no engineer. The Mater building project is going to be quite highrise which means much more space used for ancillary services allow access between the floors so reducing the space available for actual medical activity. And in modern buildings we'd be looking at significantly larger elevators and so on. So in plain terms 100,000 square metres in a 6 or 7 storey building is not the same as 100,000 in a 3 storey building.

Also, I take issue with Prof Drumm's assertion on PrimeTime that we will need less beds in future. He might not be aware of it but the population is growing and the site at the Mater does not easily allow for expansion. I wonder if the HSE has its eyes on the Mater private and is it thinking of buying them out of that area at an extortionate rate since the HSE will at that point have no where else to go. And could any such sale be related to the plans the Mater private has for expansion on public land at Beaumont, and at the regionals in Galway, Limerick and Waterford

http://www.materprivate.ie/NewsAndEvent ... .asp?id=31

Was it the Mater public or private that Bertie worked in as a bookkeeper?
 

Twin Towers

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Harney seems to be basing a lot on the Maters proximity to an adult teaching hospital. Does anyone know why this is such a big factor above other factors?

Crumlin has better access, a much larger site in a more pleasant open area and is better orientated to the rest of the country, with a huge new wing added recently. The area of the Mater is grim and clogged.

Crumlin/Drimnagh has more and better local accommodation and infrastructure for staff, their families and visitors alike.

Spend the money on Crumlin hospital and move the national childrens hospital there.
 

The OD

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salt said:
Maybe just maybe children through ahigh standard of heatlth care.

Thought that was the purpose.

Or in some minds of the posters here Mary and Bertie say down and looked at what they could move into his constituency :roll:
You seriously believe we are going to get a 'high standard of healthcare' anytime soon in this country?

You seriously believe the benefits to children and their parents was actually high on the list of priorities in coming to this decision?

Perhaps I am just too damn cynical, but something tells me that perhaps we shouldnt be so trusting?
 

pfkf

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the move to the Mater is under even more of a threat with Tallaght Hospital now saying they will not support the move, this is pretty much the end of this idea from the government, bad policy not popular, and I feel we will only hear of more hospitals saying no to Mater, as it was a dreadful decision, which is in keeping with FF/PD policies on health over the last decade. If they don't have it fixed now they never will
 

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