New National Spatial Plan and Capital Plan

SamsonS

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Well tomorrow the spatial and capital plan.
So from a geographic, hopefully be a better job than the 2002 one, which fell apart with too many places lobbed into it.

The layout/geography to me says
Dublin, Waterford, Limerick, Galway, Sligo and Athlone.

I'm not sure about the North east - think Dundalk/Drogheda fall into the Dublin sphere.

Roads, schools, homes, hospitals, jobs, trains.
 


firefly123

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A new community centre in ballybejasus.
A new community centre in every ballybejasus.
 

SamsonS

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A new community centre in ballybejasus.
A new community centre in every ballybejasus.
That is the test. Will we get a plan that will assume some places to grow, and grow faster than other areas.

I'm hopeful we will, politics will interpret this its own way, which is probably the biggest threat.
 

sic transit

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Well tomorrow the spatial and capital plan.
So from a geographic, hopefully be a better job than the 2002 one, which fell apart with too many places lobbed into it.

The layout/geography to me says
Dublin, Waterford, Limerick, Galway, Sligo and Athlone.

I'm not sure about the North east - think Dundalk/Drogheda fall into the Dublin sphere.

Roads, schools, homes, hospitals, jobs, trains.
Both are probably too close and too big, especially Drogheda. Dundalk is already a hub of sorts.
 

Orbit v2

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Not really sure I understand the point of these plans. Cities and towns are organic things. If they are healthy they grow, and if they aren't they don't.

There are general principles obviously around land use planning, that people should mostlt live in towns/villages etc but beyond that I'm not sure I see the point of this.
 

sic transit

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Not really sure I understand the point of these plans. Cities and towns are organic things. If they are healthy they grow, and if they aren't they don't.

There are general principles obviously around land use planning, that people should mostlt live in towns/villages etc but beyond that I'm not sure I see the point of this.
It's yet another attempt to try and get away from Dublin-centric everything and make other parts more attractive to live and work in.
 

DJP

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I hope the motorways between Cork and Limerick and Dublin and Donegal start getting built soon. I will find it very annoying if they are postponed for a lot longer.
 

SamsonS

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Not really sure I understand the point of these plans. Cities and towns are organic things. If they are healthy they grow, and if they aren't they don't.

There are general principles obviously around land use planning, that people should mostlt live in towns/villages etc but beyond that I'm not sure I see the point of this.
An example might be to do with zoning - so areas designated have land surrounding it zoned for development. Whetehr that's for housing , industry, etc. Athlone , for example could expand outwards towards Ballykeeran going north, Moate going east, toward Roscommon going west, and towards Ballinasloe.
The promise of capital spending allows for plans to be implemented in anticipation of the population growth, for example the new schools, shops, business districts needed to cope.
 

Orbit v2

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An example might be to do with zoning - so areas designated have land surrounding it zoned for development. Whetehr that's for housing , industry, etc. Athlone , for example could expand outwards towards Ballykeeran going north, Moate going east, toward Roscommon going west, and towards Ballinasloe.
The promise of capital spending allows for plans to be implemented in anticipation of the population growth, for example the new schools, shops, business districts needed to cope.
But, we already have development plans with zoning etc..
 

GDPR

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No it's prioritising the infrastructure in those places to grow, that means everything from public transport to health facilities to sewer capacity to third level to be concentrated on those small number of places, instead of one for everybody in each constituency. So for the southeast for example that means Waterford, not carlow, not Wexford not Kilkenny.

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Orbit v2

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No it's prioritising the infrastructure in those places to grow, that means everything from public transport to health facilities to sewer capacity to third level to be concentrated on those small number of places, instead of one for everybody in each constituency. So for the southeast for example that means Waterford, not carlow, not Wexford not Kilkenny.

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But, that doesn't mean that any of Carlow, Wexford or Kilkenny won't grow. If someone wants to open a factory in Kilkenny then that will happen regardless and will result in population being attracted to live there, and infrastructure being developed.

I still think people are maybe reading too much into it (or expecting too much from it). The biggest problem we have imo is all small and medium sized towns being strangled by people wanting to live in the surrounding rural areas. That's what causes a lot of the traffic problems, prevents the growth of public transport etc. I guess it will have a function for directing certain kinds of state infrastructure like hospitals, third level institutions. But I just heard them on RTE talk about the likely "winners and losers" That kind of talk is just silly imo.
 

GDPR

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But, that doesn't mean that any of Carlow, Wexford or Kilkenny won't grow. If someone wants to open a factory in Kilkenny then that will happen regardless and will result in population being attracted to live there, and infrastructure being developed.

I still think people are maybe reading too much into it (or expecting too much from it). The biggest problem we have imo is all small and medium sized towns being strangled by people wanting to live in the surrounding rural areas. That's what causes a lot of the traffic problems, prevents the growth of public transport etc. I guess it will have a function for directing certain kinds of state infrastructure like hospitals, third level institutions. But I just heard them on RTE talk about the likely "winners and losers" That kind of talk is just silly imo.
Yes other places will grow, just not as fast. The forthcoming regional plans will divvy that out.

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ShoutingIsLeadership

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Why extend the Luas to Bray? It will cost a fortune. Why not just run a reliable connecting bus service to it instead?
 

SPN

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I hope the motorways between Cork and Limerick and Dublin and Donegal start getting built soon. I will find it very annoying if they are postponed for a lot longer.
A Motorway is what you build when you have traffic volumes greater than 50,000 vehicles a day.

Building a Motorway whenever the volumes don't require it is a folly, and a gross waste of resources that could be better spent on more productive investment.

The N20 Cork-Limerick road does need investment. Some bypasses. Some widening. Some straightening.

Nobody disagrees with this.

But to build a 50,000 vehicles a day Motorway would be criminal.

There are so many other urgent road projects that could be built right across that region with the wasted money.


The same applies to Donegal. The N15 has been substantially upgraded in recent years. The Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypas is pretty much the only section that needs urgent work.

But wasting hundreds of millions on a 50k/day Motorway would be the height of stupidity.
 

Orbit v2

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Relaxing rules for one off housing..... starting to fall apart already, before it's even announced.
 

GDPR

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We'll see what happens. In any case you might be wondering, sure it'll just be the same ould shtick. Not quite. Last Spatial Plan, had too many 'growth' areas. And then when they later produced the capital plan or where infrastructure/investment goes, it picks another list of towns, depending on where a prominent politician was located really. This time, less 'growth' areas with the capital plan backing it up, so it has a better chance of succeeding. Why do this, why punish rural areas? Because those areas that suffered least from the last recession and who recovered the fastest? The main cities, so grow those more, add 1 or 2 beyond the main 4, which will also attract jobs, further education opportunities, so that you children many not have to leave to get work someone in your region. Anyway, there'll be a lot of spin and bluster and criticism today, but that's it in a nutshell, I think.
 


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