New Poll Shows Majority in Favour of Scottish Independence



Malcolm Redfellow

Moderator
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
4,987
Website
redfellow.blogspot.com
Twitter
mredfellow
A fleeting glimpse of a rapidly-disappearing Etonian bumfreezer jacket:

Since most of the 'regular gang' seem already to be on this thread, I'll celebrate this day of the ultimate "England's difficulty' with this snippet of Aneurin Bevan [*]. Here he was in December 1943, noting the disappearance of power from UK elective politics:
When I was quite a young boy my father took me down the street and showed me one or two portly and complacent looking gentlemen standing at the shop doors, and, pointing to one, he said, "Very important man. That's Councillor Jackson. He's a very important man in this town." I said, "What's the Council?" "Oh, that's the place that governs the affairs of this town," said my father. "Very important place indeed, and they are very powerful men." When I got older I said to myself,, "The place to get to is the council. That's where the power is." So I worked very hard, and, in association with my fellows, when I was about 20 years of age, I got on to the council. I discovered when I got there that the power had been there, but it had just gone. So I made some inquiries, being an earnest student of social affairs, and I learned that the power had slipped down to the county council. That was as where it was, and where it had gone to. So I worked very hard again, and I got there—and it had gone from there too. Then I found out that it had come up here. So I followed it, and sure enough I found that it had been here, but I just saw its coat tails round the corner.
[*] Where are those true, fire-breathing Irish Nationalists who could exploit this as 'Ireland's opportunity? [According to Oxford Dictionary of Proverbs, that's Daniel O'Connell in 1856.] There are seven (count them!) SF votes out there, sitting on their oh-so-principled abstaining årses, who could be — just this once — doing something for Ireland.
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
31,620
Corbyn’s up in Scotland today, rolling out his preferred stance: inadequately flopping into not making a decision in a manner that hacks off all sides.

He said: “In the formative years of a Labour Government we wouldn’t agree to another independence referendum because we will be fully focused on these central priorities.
“However, if at some future point there was a legitimate and fresh mandate, we wouldn’t block it.”
Richard Leonard, the party’s Scottish leader: “It would also only be acceptable to a Labour government to allow a second referendum to proceed if it could be demonstrated that there was a fresh mandate for such a vote to be held. This would require a democratic mandate from the people of Scotland, which clearly signals the majority of people are in favour of a new vote.

“I do not believe that the conditions exist for such a move today, nor will they for the foreseeable future.”
Presumably the SNP would say that a huge win in the next election for the SNP in Scotland (which they’re certainly on for now given Ruth’s departure) would be that mandate.
 

Emily Davison

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
34,194
Wrong question.
The proper question is: "Do the oil companies pay their tax in London or in Edinburgh"; followed by "Do most UK companies pay their tax in London or in Edinburgh."
All states work much the same way: most big companies are HQ'd in the capital city, and their tax is collected there, despite obvious cases such as the big retail chains earning their money across the whole state.
The big British oil companies are very likely to have thei HQs in London; I'll be happy to be corrected on that.

Even if all the oil companies HQ's were based in Edinburgh or Aberdeen, there are still dozens of retailers who earn money in Scotland and pay tax in London. Post-Brexit, if Scotland becomes independent, there is no reason why they shouldn't pay tax on their Scottish earnings in Scotland, increasing Scotland's income significantly.
Surely if Scotland pays it's taxes to London, and all the revenue from the oil also goes to London, but adding both, is less than what London sends back to Scotland so there is no added benefit to the tax going directly to Scotland.
 

DJP

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
13,804
I hope Scotland votes to leave the UK in the short upcoming years ahead of us. But I find the SNP to be a bit gobshitery and not as committed to Scottish independence as most Irish nationalist politicians are to Irish independence.

I like Nicola Sturgeon but find some of the SNP's policies and statements on social matters to be a bit gobshitery kind of like some of the things the SDLP come out with in Ireland. It's the cringey PC side of liberalism on some matters that turns me off them. The same kind of cringey PC stuff Obama and the Democrats came out with that got Trump elected and the same kind of ideology that will probably see Johnson returned to power in Westminster soon with a big majority.
 

rainmaker

Administrator
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
26,082
the same kind of ideology that will probably see Johnson returned to power in Westminster soon with a big majority.
No chance. He just lost a leave constituency, effectively his selection reduced their majority to one - an omen of things to come.

In reality he knows this - hence the desperation to spin the money & policies already planned under May as some sort of new deal.

The prorogue will only enhance that effect, and then he will carry the can for the inevitable consequences of a no deal exit.

Labour never lost the last GE - it was only the DUP deal that kept theTories in office.

I think Boris and his allies know this in all reality, and there is a definite atmosphere of 'this is our one shot at an exit' about his administration.

I think they will be happy to do that and then disappear into the sunset.
 

DJP

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
13,804
No chance. He just lost a leave constituency, effectively his selection reduced their majority to one - an omen of things to come.

In reality he knows this - hence the desperation to spin the money & policies already planned under May as some sort of new deal.

The prorogue will only enhance that effect, and then he will carry the can for the inevitable consequences of a no deal exit.

Labour never lost the last GE - it was only the DUP deal that kept theTories in office.

I think Boris and his allies know this in all reality, and there is a definite atmosphere of 'this is our one shot at an exit' about his administration.

I think they will be happy to do that and then disappear into the sunset.
You think all of the recent opinion polls are wrong?
 

rainmaker

Administrator
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
26,082
You think all of the recent opinion polls are wrong?
Over the last few years I no longer trust polls, no. He cannot carry off a landslide based on the support of those who want a no deal exit.

He has already lost one pro leave seat to the Libdems. Like Farage he is is seen as a one trick, one policy pony.

To go from no majority to a landslide is simply unrealistic -the Tories have been lucky so far that Labour are led by a non confrontational idealist than a serious Dave Miliband like leader.
 

DJP

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
13,804
He cannot carry off a landslide based on the support of those who want a no deal exit.
Even IF the majority of people in the UK are against (/not in favour of) Brexit now a lot of English people support it and with the first past the post system and the disunity of Remain parties it looks like, I think, the Tories will win the next GE.

I am just going on what I am seeing in the polls. I am not saying that I am expecting to see them necessarily have a huge majority but I would be inclined to think that if they win the next GE that they would be in a lot stronger position numerically that they have been since the last GE in '17.
 

raetsel

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
11,663
It seems unfair that the scots will have to pay their share of the 39,000,000,000 due from the uk for brexit, and then pay a whack more to be allowed back in again.

But, do we really want "milllionaire shortbread" and "deep fried mars bars" to have their own appelations controlées?
You've forgotten Irn Bru.................................a guaranteed Premier Cru Classé in any AOC assessment.
 

raetsel

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
11,663
No chance. He just lost a leave constituency, effectively his selection reduced their majority to one - an omen of things to come.

In reality he knows this - hence the desperation to spin the money & policies already planned under May as some sort of new deal.

The prorogue will only enhance that effect, and then he will carry the can for the inevitable consequences of a no deal exit.

Labour never lost the last GE - it was only the DUP deal that kept theTories in office.

I think Boris and his allies know this in all reality, and there is a definite atmosphere of 'this is our one shot at an exit' about his administration.

I think they will be happy to do that and then disappear into the sunset.
Assuming that an election was held while Brexit is still a live issue, if Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens agreed an effective election pact, then they'd be capable of forming a government with the Scot Nats.
 

McSlaggart

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
19,368
"Ruth Davidson has quit as leader of the Scottish Conservatives after eight years in the job.

In a statement she said it had been the "privilege of my life" to have led the party.

But she added that "much had changed" both politically and personally, which had led her to tender her resignation."


I think she was an excellent leader of the Scottish Conservatives and it will impact on the ability of the Scottish Conservatives to deal with issues around Brexit.
 

Pyewacket

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
3,879
Why not?

If Johnson thinks he can play hard ball, Sturgeon can too.

And to think it was only five years ago we had the "Love Scotland" campaign.

Our darling boys and girls, you would never leave us, would you?
 

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
6,035
Surely if Scotland pays it's taxes to London, and all the revenue from the oil also goes to London, but adding both, is less than what London sends back to Scotland so there is no added benefit to the tax going directly to Scotland.
Do you seriously think that when companies pay their tax they break it down in such a way that you can say with confidence how much comes from which region?
Not to mention the use of creative accounting practices, as well as backhanders given to get certain policies through parliament and into law.
Big British/English companies would not be immediately in a position to operate a revolving door system for retiring Scottish politicians and senior Scottish civil servants either, it would take time to put that part of the corruption process into place, by which time Scotland might not be the "best little country to do business in", to coin a phrase!
 

rainmaker

Administrator
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
26,082
Do you seriously think that when companies pay their tax they break it down in such a way that you can say with confidence how much comes from which region
Yes, precisely from where. It is how regional economies and planning are carried out.
 

Surkov

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
5,466
I say give the Scots a new ref. post-Brexit.

They just have to decide how aligned their economy is with the uk. A lot or a little.

Oh, and no 'confirmatory' and 're-confirmatory' votes, i.e. what they do in China. In means in and out means out.

LEt Scotland vote. IT will be a very sharp choice post Brexit.
 

PBP voter

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
9,467
A hard border between England and Scotland would make no sense.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top Bottom