New TV Adaptation of the 'Handmaid's tale'

dbreen

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Because they are pretty and subservient and the fertile women are in a tiny minority.

Its a status symbol to get to rape one who can have children and impregnate her. Not every one is high class enough to obtain a fertile wife or indeed "hand-maiden" (the rape object).

Read. The Book.
Prettyness isn't some incredibly rare resource in a healthy society.
It is quite common when girls take pride in their appearance and try not to get fat. Look at old photographs from decades gone by, most girls were pretty and had good bodies.

Status amongst men is largely about showing it to impress women. We don't use women to obtain it. We use status to obtain women.

Directly transposing female motivations on to men reminds me of low rent sci fi where men who have never had sex with or been in a relationship with a woman write male characters with male motivations into female bodies.
 


GDPR

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Prettyness isn't some incredibly rare resource in a healthy society.
It is quite common when girls take pride in their appearance and try not to get fat. Look at old photographs from decades gone by, most girls were pretty and had good bodies.

Status amongst men is largely about showing it to impress women. We don't use women to obtain it. We use status to obtain women.

Directly transposing female motivations on to men reminds me of low rent sci fi where men who have never had sex with or been in a relationship with a woman write male characters with male motivations into female bodies.
Go away and read the book if that is what you want to discuss or at least see the film/TV series.

Otherwise spare me your half-assed conjectures about either.
 

midlander12

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No, it's inspired by the Iranian revolution and the real abuses of human rights there.
It's not a metaphor for Iran, it's a study of how an equivalent regime might work in the US.

There was even an underground railroad to Canada iirc. As with slavery and the Vietnam war.
Except there is no equivalent regime in the US nor has there been for a very long time, whereas there are numerous 'actually existing' competitors in the Islamic world. That is the point people are trying to make. When I read it I instantly drew an association with Islam, long before the recent 'ISIS panic' and the rest of it, rather than seeing it as some far-fetched 'Salem Returns' fable. The fact that it was inspired by events in Iran only compounds that association.
 

petaljam

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Eagle's right, read the book.
There's been a nuclear catastrophe and almost no more babies are being born. Reproduction has become a status symbol but the chances of a particular woman being fertile are so low that calling them Handmaids is just a way of justifying polygamy in a Christian tradition.
 

petaljam

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Except there is no equivalent regime in the US nor has there been for a very long time, whereas there are numerous 'actually existing' competitors in the Islamic world. That is the point people are trying to make. When I read it I instantly drew an association with Islam, long before the recent 'ISIS panic' and the rest of it, rather than seeing it as some far-fetched 'Salem Returns' fable. The fact that it was inspired by events in Iran only compounds that association.
Atwood chose not to write about Iran, and to base her religious references firmly in the Christian tradition.
It's also situated in the Us and there's no mention of anything Islamic.

Obviously you can choose to ignore all that if you wish.
 

Munnkeyman

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Except there is no equivalent regime in the US nor has there been for a very long time, whereas there are numerous 'actually existing' competitors in the Islamic world. That is the point people are trying to make. When I read it I instantly drew an association with Islam, long before the recent 'ISIS panic' and the rest of it, rather than seeing it as some far-fetched 'Salem Returns' fable. The fact that it was inspired by events in Iran only compounds that association.
It's about any totalitarian form of government that oppresses rights. The fact that you are pinning it on one group alone is mad.
It's about Ceaușescu's Romania, Hitler's Germany, Ireland's Mother and Baby homes etc... etc...
 

flavirostris

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Clearly it's set in the US and the imagined dystopian patriarchal world is white and Christian but it obviously has parallels with Islam, whether that was her intention or not.

But the nightmarish society she portrays is actually close to reality in certain parts of the world which are not Christian or white.
 

Kilbarry

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Atwood and the Evils of Conservatism

Munnkeyman
I thought it represented 1950's Ireland crossed with a dose of Nazi Germany's Lebensborn a bit more than anything else. References the bible quite a bit.

I'll have to reserve judgement till I watch it but the clips I saw does tend towards the leftwing propaganda narrative. Evil Christian patriarchy and so on.
You both may be correct - but from different perspectives I think. Atwood seems to be the modern equivalent of those Stalinist (and later Maoist) intellectuals who were so consumed with hatred of their own societies that they had nothing to say about slave labour and mass murder in Communist countries. People like Sartre, Brecht and our own Sean O'Casey and George Bernard Shaw were so deeply concerned about the evils of Capitalism, Catholicism, Bourgeois morality etc that they could not see the barbarism of dictators who shared their own political attitudes and hatreds.

This is Cliff Notes on Margaret Atwood's motivation [Highlighting is mine]:

In an interview for The Progressive, Margaret Atwood explains how she came to write The Handmaid's Tale, which is often labeled speculative fiction because it appears to predict or warn of a triumph of totalitarianism or what one reviewer calls a "Western Hemisphere Iran." Having absorbed the New England Puritan tradition during her studies at Harvard, she observed the rise of the U.S. political right in the 1980s and compared the Moral Majority's grass-roots menace to the phenomenon of Hitler. According to Atwood, the Nazi leader told the world what he intended to do; then he set about accomplishing his heinous aims. The ranting diatribes of late twentieth-century American right-wingers — who steadfastly push women back into the traditional roles common in the 1950s, delight in the AIDS epidemic among homosexuals, and threaten death to members of the gay culture — parallel Hitler's fascist candor. Atwood claims to have acted on a what-if scenario: suppose ultraconservatives did achieve a coup d'etat and turned rhetoric into a stringent authoritarianism, replete with suspension of constitutional rights, racial cleansing, torture, perpetual sectarian wars, public execution of homosexuals and dissidents, a repressive police and spy operation, and assignment of roles to women based on their childbearing capabilities.

You can see clearly whom Atwood hates. I don't think there is much of her bile left for Islamic fascism!

Incidentally O'Casey and Shaw supported the Nazi-Soviet Pact and wrote articles in the British press urging the Brits to make peace with Hitler as Stalin had so wisely done. I wouldn't count on Atwood as a reliable ally against the Islamic fascists either!
 

GDPR

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Eagle's right, read the book.
There's been a nuclear catastrophe and almost no more babies are being born. Reproduction has become a status symbol but the chances of a particular woman being fertile are so low that calling them Handmaids is just a way of justifying polygamy in a Christian tradition.
Yup, the heroine Offred has had a baby (its complicated what happens to it) so they know shes good to go. So her fate is who gets to rape her.

Anyway, the women from connected families are seen as suitable wives, fertile or not, (they most likely arent) to cement the usual political alliances.

Pretty women may be married in a sort of concubinage, and if they prove difficult, sent to brothels.

Proles are allowed one not well-off or particularly good-looking woman as their chattel.

If a woman is very awkward and not good-looking or just old, poor and without any male protector, she will be sent to do clean up duty on the toxic dumps after the nuclear war. These are giant labour camps. Offreds mum ends up there. Other older infertile women may become "Marthas", household servants.

Thats your lot, really as a woman in Gilead.
 

stopdoingstuff

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Yup, the heroine Offred has had a baby (its complicated what happens to it) so they know shes good to go. So her fate is who gets to rape her.

Anyway, the women from connected families are seen as suitable wives, fertile or not, (they most likely arent) to cement the usual political alliances.

Pretty women may be married in a sort of concubinage, and if they prove difficult, sent to brothels.

Proles are allowed one not well-off or particularly good-looking woman as their chattel.

If a woman is very awkward and not good-looking or just old, poor and without any male protector, she will be sent to do clean up duty on the toxic dumps after the nuclear war. These are giant labour camps. Offreds mum ends up there. Other older infertile women may become "Marthas", household servants.

Thats your lot, really as a woman in Gilead.
Do you have any idea how difficult it was for me to pretend not to take the book seriously when I was reading it with my girlfriend? I got kicked in the balls over that book.
 

GDPR

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Do you have any idea how difficult it was for me to pretend not to take the book seriously when I was reading it with my girlfriend? I got kicked in the balls over that book.
(a) you never read the book
(b) you dont have a girl-friend
(c) you dont have .... nope Eagle wont go that far :)
 

dbreen

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Clearly it's set in the US and the imagined dystopian patriarchal world is white and Christian but it obviously has parallels with Islam, whether that was her intention or not.

But the nightmarish society she portrays is actually close to reality in certain parts of the world which are not Christian or white.
The feminist world of today probably wont last much more than a generation.
There is a actually a real possibility that a healthy indigenous patriarchy will re-emerge.

Feminism is a flame that burns through social capital. It reaps but it doesn't sow.
 

stopdoingstuff

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The feminist world of today probably wont last much more than a generation.
There is a actually a real possibility that a healthy indigenous patriarchy will re-emerge.

Feminism is a flame that burns through social capital. It reaps but it doesn't sow.
It really does. It will happen either naturally or due to conservative immigrants growing in number, but it will happen. They produce nothing.
 

flavirostris

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The feminist world of today probably wont last much more than a generation.
There is a actually a real possibility that a healthy indigenous patriarchy will re-emerge.

Feminism is a flame that burns through social capital. It reaps but it doesn't sow.
The inevitable conclusion of feminism is Islam. Anybody that dosen't believe that should look at Sweden.
 

reg11

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I'm just waiting for the post that tells us that the author was wrong about what inspired her to write what she did. :D
As if she were going to say that Islamic fundamentalism was the inspiration, if that was the case?

It was written in 85, Thomas Merton predicted in an 1958 book that the West was heading for a clash of civilisations. If only the powers had taken preventative measures then. She would have been familiar with his writing, it's quite possible she was inspired by other than what she claims.

It seems each are going to insist and claim to know what her inspiration was in accordance with their own prejudices and how they see, or want to see the world. It seems it's a prescient work and telling that now is the time it's being televised which should be a bit worrying for all.
 

Dearghoul

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No seriously, I wound her up to the last. I told her that I would love her more if she had her feet bound like her great grandmother.
So you bound her up to the last.

Did she wind you up back?

Would we hear if she did, or do you give yourself the good lines?
 


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