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Newly qualified second level teachers in the UK are being paid 15% greater than in Ireland.


RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
The Irish Independent has a very interesting article today (18 February) stating that thousands of newly qualified Irish teachers are being hired in the UK on salaries and contracts far greater than they would receive in Ireland.

Teachers targeted for jobs in UK - Independent.ie

The article states that new second teachers in Ireland receive €27,617. . . Assuming they have a full-time contract.
This is actually untrue with the real figure being €30,702

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0008_2013.pdf

The article states that new second level teachers are being employed in the UK on €27,167 basic with an additional accommodation allowance of approximately €8,127 and additional allowances for flights and food (although no figures are supplied for flights and food).

Leaving aside the UK allowances for flights and food this leaves the UK gross wage for teachers leaving Ireland on €35,294 or approximately 15% greater than the wage they would receive in Ireland.

Given the fact that no pension levy is paid in the UK (as is the case in Ireland) the disparity in the net wage would be far greater - taking the net value to in excess of 20%.

This all assumes that the new Irish second level teacher receives a full time contract in the first place. . . . Which is extremely rare.

Add in additional UK benefits such as security of tenure in the UK, a lower cost economy and the fact that the new UK teacher can actually be promoted (something unavailable to the teacher in Ireland) and it's quite clear that the terms and conditions of employment in the UK are now far greater than they are in Ireland for new second level teachers.

Note that it is the intention of the government to increase this greater UK-Ireland difference under the terms of Croke Park 2.

The loonarati of p.ie are not going to like this one.
 

greengoose2

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Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
25,444
The Irish Independent has a very interesting article today (18 February) stating that thousands of newly qualified Irish teachers are being hired in the UK on salaries and contracts far greater than they would receive in Ireland.

Teachers targeted for jobs in UK - Independent.ie

The article states that new second teachers in Ireland receive €27,617. . . Assuming they have a full-time contract.
This is actually untrue with the real figure being €30,702

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0008_2013.pdf

The article states that new second level teachers are being employed in the UK on €27,167 basic with an additional accommodation allowance of approximately €8,127 and additional allowances for flights and food (although no figures are supplied for flights and food).

Leaving aside the UK allowances for flights and food this leaves the UK gross wage for teachers leaving Ireland on €35,294 or approximately 15% greater than the wage they would receive in Ireland.

Given the fact that no pension levy is paid in the UK (as is the case in Ireland) the disparity in the net wage would be far greater - taking the net value to in excess of 20%.

This all assumes that the new Irish second level teacher receives a full time contract in the first place. . . . Which is extremely rare.

Add in additional UK benefits such as security of tenure in the UK, a lower cost economy and the fact that the new UK teacher can actually be promoted (something unavailable to the teacher in Ireland) and it's quite clear that the terms and conditions of employment in the UK are now far greater than they are in Ireland for new second level teachers.

Note that it is the intention of the government to increase this greater UK-Ireland difference under the terms of Croke Park 2.

The loonarati of p.ie are not going to like this one.

As the leading loonerate on p.ie you might consider moving to the UK and taking your whingeing along with you. The other contributors are going to love this. Watch out for missiles!
 

Sync

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Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
Interesting. So an employer in a country that needs more of a type of worker is offering more than an employer in a country that has an over abundance of that type of worker. Revolutionary.

We should come up with a name for this phenomenon. It needs to be catchy and memorable. Something like supply and demand?
 

RobertW

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Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
As the leading loonerate on p.ie you might consider moving to the UK and taking your whingeing along with you. The other contributors are going to love this. Watch out for missiles!
Hear that?

That's the sound of silence from your post there Greengoose. . . No argument. ;)
 

RobertW

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Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
Interesting. So an employer in a country that needs more of a type of worker is offering more than an employer in a country that has an over abundance of that type of worker. Revolutionary.

We should come up with a name for this phenomenon. It needs to be catchy and memorable. Something like supply and demand?
Ah yea. . Now I get it.

Fr years we had the teachers in the UK supposedly paid a lot less than in Ireland. Now we're getting the Supply/Demand argument.

Surely now we could apply that right across the economy.

In fact go into your boss' office this morning and tell him you're prepared to recognise that there are unemployed people as equally qualified as you and, as a result, you're prepared to work for, say, 20% less.
 

Sync

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Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
Ah yea. . Now I get it.

Fr years we had the teachers in the UK supposedly paid a lot less than in Ireland. Now we're getting the Supply/Demand argument.
In my defence, I've pretty much always been about supply and demand in every industry. We have a minimum wage. Above that, if you can get qualified, competent staff in the numbers you need to staff the classrooms for 20% less than the current starting price, then you drop the starting price to that amount.

Surely now we could apply that right across the economy.
Yup.

In fact go into your boss' office this morning and tell him you're prepared to recognise that there are unemployed people as equally qualified as you and, as a result, you're prepared to work for, say, 20% less.
If there are a bunch of unemployed people as qualified as me in my role willing to work for 20% less then I'd expect my company to gut my team with redundancies and replace us over time. I've seen it happen in 2 of my previous companies, an entire level of management gotten rid of and then replaced over time by cheaper available equivilant talents.

Supply of similar labour certainly informs decisions relating to my pay/bonus. If there's 5000 people in Ireland able to do my job then when I go for a new role I can expect my salary offer to reflect that.

It's like all those much malligned bankers out there, if you're a risk/compliance/auditor AIBer who wants a raise you get told to do one because there's a bunch of you out there in Ireland and because you can be replaced for less. That same person has a different conversation in UK/Switzerland because there's a demand there for those skills.

To the unemployed banker citing wages in the UK when he goes for a job I say: Go to the UK. We have lots of people willing to do your job for less. I say the same thing to teachers.

In practical terms, rather than unrealistically asking for what people in high deman countries are asking for, focus on reducing supply here. Numbers for Arts courses were down 6% last year, but they're still too high. Bump up the points numbers and reduce the amount of teachers in the pipeline. Right now there's simply too many of them actively looking for employment to justify an increase in wages.
 
Last edited:

controller

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Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
3,176
But you are always telling us that the drop out rate is higher and terms / conditions are worse in the U.K. So now I'm confused???
 

riven

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Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
2,185
From the OP's article

However, as temporary workers, they are entitled to a variety of benefits on top of their tax-free allowance.
Temporary teachers are teachers that do not have a fixed school. Instead they tend to cover an area with the requirement to be able to get to whichever school that requires then with 24 hours notice. That is why the benifits (and you quote the maximum figure for the London area) Furthermore if no school needs them, they do not work and do not get paid.

In short you are comparing different jobs.
 
Last edited:

davoid

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
9,711
The Irish Independent has a very interesting article today (18 February) stating that thousands of newly qualified Irish teachers are being hired in the UK on salaries and contracts far greater than they would receive in Ireland.

Teachers targeted for jobs in UK - Independent.ie

The article states that new second teachers in Ireland receive €27,617. . . Assuming they have a full-time contract.
This is actually untrue with the real figure being €30,702

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0008_2013.pdf

The article states that new second level teachers are being employed in the UK on €27,167 basic with an additional accommodation allowance of approximately €8,127 and additional allowances for flights and food (although no figures are supplied for flights and food).
D

Do the Irish figures include or exclude allowances e.g. For being a teacher?



Leaving aside the UK allowances for flights and food this leaves the UK gross wage for teachers leaving Ireland on €35,294 or approximately 15% greater than the wage they would receive in Ireland.

Given the fact that no pension levy is paid in the UK (as is the case in Ireland) the disparity in the net wage would be far greater - taking the net value to in excess of 20%.

This all assumes that the new Irish second level teacher receives a full time contract in the first place. . . . Which is extremely rare.

Add in additional UK benefits such as security of tenure in the UK, a lower cost economy and the fact that the new UK teacher can actually be promoted (something unavailable to the teacher in Ireland) and it's quite clear that the terms and conditions of employment in the UK are now far greater than they are in Ireland for new second level teachers.

Note that it is the intention of the government to increase this greater UK-Ireland difference under the terms of Croke Park 2.

The loonarati of p.ie are not going to like this one.
 

Carl Claudius

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Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
1,263
School teachers in the uk get a hell of a lot less holidays than in ireland
they do however have more job security. There is none of this 3 hour a week teaching position. Most young teachers here have to be available for interviews often with little or no prior notice. In Britain they know they have a job in September.
 

Schomberg

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Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
12,341
they do however have more job security. There is none of this 3 hour a week teaching position. Most young teachers here have to be available for interviews often with little or no prior notice. In Britain they know they have a job in September.
That's the "supply and demand" another poster mentioned.
 
D

Dylan2010

Britain is a wealthier country than Ireland (which in itself is a sad state of affairs) , one would hope that all PS salaries here are 20+ lower. Same goes goes for benefits and min wage. OP might want to consder why the cost of living is higher here, legitimate reasons are Island country and low population density. But then look at VAT why is at 23% and why is fuel duty and business rates so high, all to feed the bloated state. This OP is just another whinge fest as to why he wants to be insulated from reality
 

IbrahaimMohamad

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
4,226
The Irish Independent has a very interesting article today (18 February) stating that thousands of newly qualified Irish teachers are being hired in the UK on salaries and contracts far greater than they would receive in Ireland.

Teachers targeted for jobs in UK - Independent.ie

The article states that new second teachers in Ireland receive €27,617. . . Assuming they have a full-time contract.
This is actually untrue with the real figure being €30,702

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0008_2013.pdf

The article states that new second level teachers are being employed in the UK on €27,167 basic with an additional accommodation allowance of approximately €8,127 and additional allowances for flights and food (although no figures are supplied for flights and food).

Leaving aside the UK allowances for flights and food this leaves the UK gross wage for teachers leaving Ireland on €35,294 or approximately 15% greater than the wage they would receive in Ireland.

Given the fact that no pension levy is paid in the UK (as is the case in Ireland) the disparity in the net wage would be far greater - taking the net value to in excess of 20%.

This all assumes that the new Irish second level teacher receives a full time contract in the first place. . . . Which is extremely rare.

Add in additional UK benefits such as security of tenure in the UK, a lower cost economy and the fact that the new UK teacher can actually be promoted (something unavailable to the teacher in Ireland) and it's quite clear that the terms and conditions of employment in the UK are now far greater than they are in Ireland for new second level teachers.

Note that it is the intention of the government to increase this greater UK-Ireland difference under the terms of Croke Park 2.

The loonarati of p.ie are not going to like this one.
What percentage of the UK exchequer's total spending is being funded through borrowing this year?

Cut the cloth according to your measure!

What are the salary rates for experienced teachers at the top of their pay scale in the UK?

Qualified teachers' pay scales - Career - TES

The starting salary outside London is £21,588 rising to a top of the scale £31,552 after 6 years!

Top pay for a Teacher in Inner London is £36,387. You can get more than that holding a stop /Go sign on road works! It would just about cover a lifestyle of a bedsit in Kilburn or Cricklewood!
 
Last edited:

daveL

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
19,593
The Irish Independent has a very interesting article today (18 February) stating that thousands of newly qualified Irish teachers are being hired in the UK on salaries and contracts far greater than they would receive in Ireland.

Teachers targeted for jobs in UK - Independent.ie

The article states that new second teachers in Ireland receive €27,617. . . Assuming they have a full-time contract.
This is actually untrue with the real figure being €30,702

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0008_2013.pdf

The article states that new second level teachers are being employed in the UK on €27,167 basic with an additional accommodation allowance of approximately €8,127 and additional allowances for flights and food (although no figures are supplied for flights and food).

Leaving aside the UK allowances for flights and food this leaves the UK gross wage for teachers leaving Ireland on €35,294 or approximately 15% greater than the wage they would receive in Ireland.

Given the fact that no pension levy is paid in the UK (as is the case in Ireland) the disparity in the net wage would be far greater - taking the net value to in excess of 20%.

This all assumes that the new Irish second level teacher receives a full time contract in the first place. . . . Which is extremely rare.

Add in additional UK benefits such as security of tenure in the UK, a lower cost economy and the fact that the new UK teacher can actually be promoted (something unavailable to the teacher in Ireland) and it's quite clear that the terms and conditions of employment in the UK are now far greater than they are in Ireland for new second level teachers.

Note that it is the intention of the government to increase this greater UK-Ireland difference under the terms of Croke Park 2.

The loonarati of p.ie are not going to like this one.
Go then.
 
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