No Deal unless the Irish border backstop is scrapped



Emily Davison

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The accents of the plain people of the south are just as alien by the way, and none of you seem to seem to know that there is only one syllable in the word FILM or that there is no J in GUARDIAN.
Filum I get, same with worum. But the J in Guardian has me stumped? Where?
 

Catahualpa

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To date we have been doing the complete opposite. Ireland has largely jettisoned its commitments under the Good Friday Agreement and thrown its lot completely in with the EU.

We should have acted as a bridge between London and Brussels, seeking a smooth and successful Brexit. Instead we acted as the EU's cat's paw.

It can brace for those undoubted serious consequences and ride out the rough patch, trying to survive by appealing to old fashioned Anglophobia and seeking the age-old refuge of the scoundrel, patriotism.

The most sensible alternative would be to swallow our pride and open up direct bilateral discussions with London on how to keep the Irish border free-flowing post-Brexit.
Indeed a huge Error of Judgement that we handed it all over to a Frenchman to put Ireland's case.

If we had sat down with the Brits 121 we would not be anything like the mess we are in now!
 

raetsel

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Filum I get, same with worum. But the J in Guardian has me stumped? Where?
Maybe it is regional, but I often hear it pronounced "Garjan".
Another one that really bugs me is how some people on Dublin media, people who should know better, mispronounce Phil Coulter's surname, pronouncing the first syllable as "cool" as opposed to the correct version "coal".
Pat Kenny is one of the culprits but there are a number of others.
 

DJP

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Indeed a huge Error of Judgement that we handed it all over to a Frenchman to put Ireland's case.

If we had sat down with the Brits 121 we would not be anything like the mess we are in now!
I was against the backstop from soon after the policy was announced up until recently. I've changed my mind on it recently. If we had no backstop/backstop policy the Irish and other EU politicians/Governments- particularly the Irish Government- would have to continually "jump in the dark" (to quote Leo Varadkar) throughout the Brexit negotiations with Britain. I can understand jumping in the dark once or so but not through the entire negotiations.

I thought previously that this policy was a Irish Nationalist policy and in large part a cover for the parties in Ireland for domestic politics less they be hammered for not taking a tough stand with Britain. I can well imagine that a lot of the people who support the backstop are doing so as part of a Nationlist/pan-Nationalist front kind of attitude. But I don't believe Nationalism features into why the Irish Government and the overwhelming number of prominent supporters of the backstop support it.
 

odlum

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Let's get Micheál in there now to confront Boris and lay the Brits out on the canvass.

He's the only man for the job. (y)
 

death or glory

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Let's get Micheál in there now to confront Boris and lay the Brits out on the canvass.

He's the only man for the job. (y)
Good luck with that, by hell you need it.
 

Emily Davison

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Indeed a huge Error of Judgement that we handed it all over to a Frenchman to put Ireland's case.

If we had sat down with the Brits 121 we would not be anything like the mess we are in now!
There was no dealing with the British. They can't even deal with each other never mind anybody else. We've had nearly three years of a pantomime in Westminster as the Tories fight with each other. They are heading to a constitutional crisis after putting Boris in charge, he apparently won't step down if there is a no confidence vote in him. Even their Queen is exasperated with them. We didn't create this mess and we sure as hell aren't going to be able to sort it out because they would then blame us for doing anything.
 

Emily Davison

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Maybe it is regional, but I often hear it pronounced "Garjan".
Another one that really bugs me is how some people on Dublin media, people who should know better, mispronounce Phil Coulter's surname, pronouncing the first syllable as "cool" as opposed to the correct version "coal".
Pat Kenny is one of the culprits but there are a number of others.
I pronunce it cool ! He was interviewed relatively recently and I didn't notice that. Must look out for that.

I get now what you mean about the J.

I can't say the word onion or Hawaii correctly.

(you ought to email Pat and tell him the error of his ways, bet he doesn't realise he's misprouncing it)
 

Emily Davison

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Let's get Micheál in there now to confront Boris and lay the Brits out on the canvass.

He's the only man for the job. (y)
We get it we really do. You love FF. But it's tedious in the extreme that you feel the need to tell us every couple of days. I'm still mad at them for their financial mismanagement of the country, but they have been partly redeemed in my eyes by MM supporting FG in these trying times.
 

Mickeymac

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There was no dealing with the British. They can't even deal with each other never mind anybody else. We've had nearly three years of a pantomime in Westminster as the Tories fight with each other. They are heading to a constitutional crisis after putting Boris in charge, he apparently won't step down if there is a no confidence vote in him. Even their Queen is exasperated with them. We didn't create this mess and we sure as hell aren't going to be able to sort it out because they would then blame us for doing anything.

They don't have even the sense to know that blaming all and sundry for their self inflicted mess up will only lead to even more isolation and disgust from the International community.
 

raetsel

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I pronunce it cool ! He was interviewed relatively recently and I didn't notice that. Must look out for that.

I get now what you mean about the J.

I can't say the word onion or Hawaii correctly.

(you ought to email Pat and tell him the error of his ways, bet he doesn't realise he's misprouncing it)
It's a common name here in the north, originally Scottish, sometimes spelt Coalter, sometimes Coulter, but the pronunciation is always the same for both.
 

MOSS1

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It's hard to see anything bar No Deal now. To be honest I think that's what Boris himself is striving for now. If he was going for a deal he wouldn't have appointed Priti Patel to cabinet surely. Priti isn't likely to be voting for any withdrawal agreement and would he really appoint someone to a top position in the knowledge she'd have to resign in a few months? And it's more politics than economics driving it. The European elections brought it into sharp focus. It's an existential crisis for the Tories and to survive they have to deliver Brexit and do so in a form that satisfies Nigel Farrage. I think that's why you're seeing a lot of erstwhile critics of No Deal soften their stance, not just the likes of Amber Ruud inside the party but also business groups for whom the collapse of the Tory Party would they reckon be worse long term than the downsides of No Deal.

On the Labour side it's hard to see what they do. It's long since been suspected what Jeremy Cornyn wants is Brexit to happen but for him not to be the one to deliver it. What Boris is proposing would grant him that wish. There are risks on all sides for him but surely he doesn't want to go into an election where the whole question of Brexit happening is on the table as he looks like getting squeezed by Lib Dems on one flank and Tory/Brexit Party on the other. Plus he runs the risk (however unlikely) of being deposed by some sort of 'agreed' PM at the head of a multi party coalition afterwards. He may prefer to take his chances in a spring election a few months after Brexit where he can frame it as a 'what comes next' election and a choice between a Tory 'Singapore on Thames' and whatever sort of social Britain he presents himself. Not without risk either but he may feel gives him a better chance.
 

raetsel

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Should the Irish in America who have not assimilated to Native American culture, return to Ireland?Ditto the Irish in Australia and indeed the UK?
:rolleyes:
That analogy wouldn't even qualify for a place in a remedial history class...........................
 

Pyewacket

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I see no evidence of a hard frontier going up, preparations for it etc.

It is all shit.

The UK will do nothing on 01 Nov.
 

death or glory

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I see no evidence of a hard frontier going up, preparations for it etc.

It is all shit.

The UK will do nothing on 01 Nov.
the British government have repeatedly said they will not enforce the hard border.
They don't want too and no one can force them too.

Whereas Eire will be duty bound to enforce the EU single market or otherwise all UK product could quite legally travel via Stranraer to Europe.
 

Newrybhoy

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:rolleyes:
That analogy wouldn't even qualify for a place in a remedial history class...........................
Why not?

Because it doesn't suit the Irish diaspora?

They arrived in these countries hundreds of years after the British arrived in Ireland. They have far less right to be there than the British have to be in Northern Ireland.

But please explain your reasoning?
 

riddles

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If the UK government had a strong enough majority would the border be an issue?
Also if it comes to a potential no deal the EU could not give a sh1t about the border if it was at the expense of EU car sales in the UK.

Long story short it seems Mays deal was roundly rejected on a whole range of points, the border being a lesser one, twice.

If the EU were to say let’s ignore the border question how close are we to a deal? I doubt that clown Johnson would have any answers. A lot of smoke getting blown at the minute because people are clueless on how to move.

Brexit has happened because since the financial crash we have seen a complete failure in leadership. This vacuum creates a certain fatalism where people are ready to jump into the unknown to see if their lot will change. The daft apids don’t realize the decks are stacked against them whatever way the cookie crumbles. The Rhys-Moggs, Johnson’s and Cameron’s are poised to clean up in a deregulated Britain rolling back on workers rights and all manner of social commitments.

The EU is a terrible thing until you consider the alternatives.
 

McSlaggart

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Indeed a huge Error of Judgement that we handed it all over to a Frenchman to put Ireland's case.

If we had sat down with the Brits 121 we would not be anything like the mess we are in now!
Ireland does not have a case? Its the EU who the British are dealing with and I can not see the disadvantage of a Frenchman taking on the task????
 

raetsel

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Why not?

Because it doesn't suit the Irish diaspora?

They arrived in these countries hundreds of years after the British arrived in Ireland. They have far less right to be there than the British have to be in Northern Ireland.

But please explain your reasoning?
You cannot assimilate with a culture that has all but disappeared.
By the time the vast majority of Irish started arriving in places like Boston, New York, Philadelphia etc. in the mid 19th century, these places were entirely "new American" in character. The native tribes had long moved further west or had been exterminated by the new occupants, and there would have been little evidence that they had ever lived there. They did assimilate over time, but with the Italians, Germans, British, Scandinavians, Spanish, Italians, and eastern European Jews who also were their neighbours. The proof is there in the family heritage of modern, rather unlikely sounding Irish-Americans like Tommy Hilfiger, Joe Biden, Emilio Estevez, Robert DeNiro, Anne Hathaway and Ben Stiller.
 


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