No Deal unless the Irish border backstop is scrapped

Newrybhoy

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The views of the British are irrelevant to most Unionists. They are British because they consider themselves to be so. They don't care what the so-called "real British" think. This is common enough among the descendants of colonial settlers, the pied-noirs in Algeria were exactly the same with regard to "mainland France". The Gibraltarians (albeit they are mostly descended from "native" Spaniards) are also comparable.

The covenanting tradition involves loyalty in exchange for defined guarantees. Don't forget that the "independent Ulster" strain of Loyalism has always been historically strong. True blue "British like Finchley" are a small minority among Ulster Unionists. Most are Unionist because they feel that it is in their community's interests to be part of the UK as opposed to a united Ireland. The idea that most Unionists will somehow give over centuries of hostility to the CNR community is wishful thinking. A process has started with Alliance-leaning Unionists becoming open to a united Ireland. This is where Nationalism needs to concentrate its efforts. The problem is that Sinn Féin is incapable of refraining from triumphalism and petty fights with the DUP because it enhances their electoral base.
Is it the right if an immigrant to GB in the last 200 years to say whether or not people in NI are British?

Is it in our gift to say that those immigrants or their descendants are not British?

Are Irish Americans,English,Scottish etc not "Irish"?

Nice can of worms you've opened here.
 


Se0samh

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Is it the right if an immigrant to GB in the last 200 years to say whether or not people in NI are British?

Is it in our gift to say that those immigrants or their descendants are not British?

Are Irish Americans,English,Scottish etc not "Irish"?

Nice can of worms you've opened here.

Jeez, trust you to get the wrong end of the stick...the extremely vast majority of those that consider themselves the "real British" don't consider you to be "real British", no matter what you call yourselves...they'll call you Irish...as do the vast majority of us funnily enough, but if you want to be call yourselves after a mythical identity, go ahead and if the UK gives you citizenship rights after...fair enough, no-one will make you renounce it... :)
 

Newrybhoy

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Jeez, trust you to get the wrong end of the stick...the extremely vast majority of those that consider themselves the "real British" don't consider you to be "real British", no matter what you call yourselves...they'll call you Irish...as do the vast majority of us funnily enough, but if you want to be call yourselves after a mythical identity, go ahead and if the UK gives you citizenship rights after...fair enough, no-one will make you renounce it... :)
Fortunately is not in your perogative to designate anyone.

Have you renounced your British Citizenship?

Thought not.
 

Se0samh

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Fortunately is not in your perogative to designate anyone.

Have you renounced your British Citizenship?

Thought not.
Still getting the wrong end of the stick...now why doesn't that surprise me...you probably pass for a genius amongst your mates...in the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king.... :LOL:
 

shiel

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Feb 14, 2011
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Brexiteers do not want a no deal Brexit, but if that is what it takes due to EU intransigence, so be it.

If the Republic of Ireland is so concerned about the Border, then it should have used its supposed influence and veto to ensure an acceptable deal was done, instead of being the Commissions lap dog.

Ireland is owed nothing, if you want to be an equal, then get off your knees and organise a deal.

The GFA did not stipulate anyone had to stay in the EU and there is no question of restricting movement of Irish people between North and South, certainly on the part of the UK. If the Irish allow the EU to interfere then admit you are not a free country,but merely a tiny vassal.
It was the Brexiteers that voted to tear up the agreement the UK had signed with nearly thirty other European democracies.

That was an acceptable deal.

It was the Brexiteers that refused to implement the consequent agreement negotiated by the UK with the EU.

It is the Brexiteers that have closed down parliament rather than allow democratic discussion.

It is the Brexiteers who want rid of the backstop because the backstop is designed to defend the conditions agreed by the UK in the international Belfast Agreement.

It is the Brexiteers that rejoice in the declaration of economic war with the EU.

It is the Brexiteers that support Trump and Putin in their agenda to dismantle the EU and to go back to the conditions of the 1930s.
 

Enoch Root

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Jul 11, 2019
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Brexiteers do not want a no deal Brexit, but if that is what it takes due to EU intransigence, so be it.
Some Brexiteers do very much want a no-deal Brexit. Some do not.

Why do some Brexiteers very much want a no-deal Brexit?

Some are misinformed.

Some are lunatics, just as in any group of people, some will be lunatics.

But, most importantly, some are involved in a grant wheeze to effectively short the UK wholesale.

There's a lot of money to be made if you had the money to spare and had bet that money against the UK economy.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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All island back stop, a little like all island food and agriculture policy but bigger.
 

Glaucon

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Is it the right if an immigrant to GB in the last 200 years to say whether or not people in NI are British?

Is it in our gift to say that those immigrants or their descendants are not British?

Are Irish Americans,English,Scottish etc not "Irish"?

Nice can of worms you've opened here.
One must distinguish between actual DNA and "ethnic heritage". The latest DNA studies indicate that there is relatively little difference between the British and the Irish. The Irish (across the whole island) are most closely related, in DNA terms, to people from the West of Scotland, but the overall differences are minor.

“It is remarkable how long the shadows of Scotland’s Dark Age kingdoms are, given the massive increase in movement from the industrial revolution to the modern era. We believe this is largely due to the majority of people marrying locally and preserving their genetic identity.”

That "genetic identity" is still true for most Unionists. They are mostly descended from colonists to the North of Ireland who arrived after 1607 (as opposed to earlier migrations back and forth). This what provides their group cohesion and is why we still hear stuff about the "Protestant people". Lose this, and the entire reason for their existence is lost. It won't go quietly into the night if faced with the likes of SF.
 

Talk Back

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In this "designation" it is geographical not political.

The UK passport clearly states British Citizen.
You Unionists are about as British as the Chinese were in Hong Kong - before the real British in Britain did to them, what they are now doing to you nomads.
 

Estragon

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He did a good job in the EU as Commissioner. It's an excellent appointment as he has the negotation skills necessary to be a good Trade commissioner and he will have a unique insight into doing a trade deal with the UK as he is Irish.

People need to get over the Water debacle which polarised Irish people. There is not such thing as free water and Ireland still pays the cost of that debacle because of poor water infrastructure, open sewage leaking into waterways and cyrptos thingmejob making water undrinkable.
"Negotiation skills"

You're joking, right? He was a lumbering, pompous, cloth-eared goon when he was on the scene here. That doesn't actually change because he's out of sight. The deficiencies of character which were so painfully apparent when he was plying his trade in Leinster House, will become just as apparent to Whitehall. And, I fear, will lead him into similarly bovine misjudgments. Except now the consequences will be on a spectacular and catastrophic scale.

Just because he has a green jersey on his back, doesn't mean he's any good.
 

Glaucon

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"Negotiation skills"

You're joking, right? He was a lumbering, pompous, cloth-eared goon when he was on the scene here. That doesn't actually change because he's out of sight. The deficiencies of character which were so painfully apparent when he was plying his trade in Leinster House, will become just as apparent to Whitehall. And, I fear, will lead him into similarly bovine misjudgments. Except now the consequences will be on a spectacular and catastrophic scale.

Just because he has a green jersey on his back, doesn't mean he's any good.
It doesn't say much for the EU that he was appointed to a position of some importance. He is one of the most incompetent individuals ever to have served in an Irish government.
 

Newrybhoy

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Apr 1, 2018
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You Unionists are about as British as the Chinese were in Hong Kong - before the real British in Britain did to them, what they are now doing to you nomads.
Go and do your homework.

Peter and Jane won't read itself.
 


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