Noel Whelan & The Oath Of Allegiance. Another FF Turncoat Betrays The Republic.

TruthInTheNews

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Noel Whelan writes in the Irish Times; “Sinn Féin must end abstentionism to achieve a united Ireland”.


That is an illogical statement. MPs who take the Oath of Allegiance to the British Crown cannot campaign for a United Ireland because to do so would be a breach of the Oath. Furthermore an MP cannot be loyal to two countries at once. It is for this reason that many countries do not allow elected officials hold dual citizenship. Noel Whelan is asking SF MPs to put Britain first and Ireland last. Just how low can FF go?
 


Lumpy Talbot

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No
Didn't FF indicate that they were going to fight elections in the north at one stage? Sinn Fein should put out a press release recommending Fianna Fail end their policy of abstentionism in the north and invite them to participate in the electoral process in northern elections.

They could request that Fianna Fail disengage from the politics of the brown envelope and embrace the politics of the ballot box instead.
 

Mick Mac

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He is arguing for plural identities or better put for an intersectional reading of what it means to be republican.

This is a valid approach, if not a traditional one.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Pretty hard to work out how you can be a Republican with either a capital 'R' or republican with a small 'r' when it involves taking an oath of allegiance inimical by its very nature to any form of republicanism.

Mind you with FF's ancient practice of speaking out of both sides of the mouth I'm sure they'd give it a go.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Living in a constitutional monarchy as I do and being a republican (of the French school) there are certain jobs I cannot take and on two or three occasions in my working life it has been suggested to me or recommended that I go for certain jobs which would involve either taking an oath or signing up to something which would not sit well with my own principles so I have politely turned down those opportunities.

I'm fine with that and no one to my recollection has ever been insulted by it.
 

borntorum

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Pretty hard to work out how you can be a Republican with either a capital 'R' or republican with a small 'r' when it involves taking an oath of allegiance inimical by its very nature to any form of republicanism.

Mind you with FF's ancient practice of speaking out of both sides of the mouth I'm sure they'd give it a go.
Tony Benn was a republican yet took the oath of allegiance. Do you think he was a hypocrite?
 

Mick Mac

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Tony Benn was a republican yet took the oath of allegiance. Do you think he was a hypocrite?
He was defining being republican on his terms perhaps.

There is an argument to be made that Sinn fein should not exclude themselves from fora where they can engage.

If some notions of exclusivity regarding itish identity prevent them from recognising this then their notions of irish identity are out dated, problematic and excluding.

There are cakid arguments on both sides and maybe they need to push themselves to deconstructing old patterns of thinking and develop a more inclusive identity of what it means to be from Ireland and what it means to be Irish.

It's a big challenge and they should step up to it.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Essentially if you have republican principles you can engage in the democratic process but only up to the point where you are being asked to sign a blank cheque in terms of loyalty to an institution which should not exist in a republic.

In a sense the refusal to take an oath to a monarchy creates two issues. One for the person refusing to take the oath and another for the monarchy. The latter is of no consequence until there is a significant constituency refusing to take the oath. And then it does constitute a problem.

That is the point of it. It isn't just a challenge for Sinn Fein that no oath to the crown can be taken.It is also, in the end, a problem for the crown and Westminster.
 

ruserious

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The SDLP were able to sit in Westminster and cross their finders during the oath and still represent Irish nationalism.

SF should only sit in Westminster if there is a genuine belief that it would make a difference.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
One can take pragmatism too far.Tony Benn made some good decisions as a republican of the French school early in his political career but he did go distinctly FF in later years especially when he sponsored the proposed candidacy of a niece of his to fight a seat when she was 18 years old and just finished secondary school.

A fine speaker and political mind but pragmatism which can be something of a candle by which one can see one's own principles against the dark can also run down, gutter, and go out.Leaving an old man in a dark place with nothing to light his way.
 

Mick Mac

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The SDLP were able to sit in Westminster and cross their finders during the oath and still represent Irish nationalism.

SF should only sit in Westminster if there is a genuine belief that it would make a difference.
Ha ha, even I had to laugh at that.

The sdlp weren't even nationalist of an open and shared identity type. They were just sad cases.

Sinn fein can be so more if they really fight for an open identity and shared definitions of what it means to be Irish.

Hanging onto ireland is irish and limited to the island identity notions belong to thr past. They can go to London and still be Irish, perhaps even more inclusively so.
 

onetimeonly

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SF should avoid Westminster like the plague right now. It is a complete clown show. There may be a case at some point (perhaps, post-Brexit, when things might be turning bad and settling a knife-edge vote might be extremely advantageous) but everyone in the place is a disaster right now, apart from the SNP on occasion.

They get to act like the adults in the room for now, if they join the act would just create another sideshow.
 

fifilawe

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if SF took the oath , they could kiss their seats goodbye at the next election.A splinter group would be on the ground running and have an "Abstention Policy" within 6 mths.
Look what good it did SDLP all those years ,kow towing and swearing loyalty to the crown , nada. As for Noel Whelan like most spoofers, BS Artists , he can spin it anyway he likes , like 99.9% of the legal profession he can hold two complete opposite opinions and play to each side he is their man, he is a Mé Féiner first and foremost.I don't like the man and I just switch off when he is on air and skip his columns online or on the paper.
 

brughahaha

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Noel Whelan would be the first to turn around 2 weeks after SF took their seats and claim in a long diatribe that they now accept partition ...

Noel Whelan ....isnt he about as relevant as the Railway cup ?
 

Catalpast

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The SDLP were able to sit in Westminster and cross their finders during the oath and still represent Irish nationalism.

SF should only sit in Westminster if there is a genuine belief that it would make a difference.
It certainly would

- they would be finished....

They have dropped every 'principle' they ever had

- but this would be one U turn too many.....
 

Cdebru

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Presumably this is to prevent Brexit ?

How would preventing Brexit achieve a united Ireland ?

If anything a hardest Brexit possible will bring about a United Ireland.
 

Man or Mouse

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Pretty hard to work out how you can be a Republican with either a capital 'R' or republican with a small 'r' when it involves taking an oath of allegiance inimical by its very nature to any form of republicanism.

Mind you with FF's ancient practice of speaking out of both sides of the mouth I'm sure they'd give it a go.
They already did, back in Dev's day.
 

NMunsterman

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Noel Whelan writes in the Irish Times; “Sinn Féin must end abstentionism to achieve a united Ireland”.


That is an illogical statement. MPs who take the Oath of Allegiance to the British Crown cannot campaign for a United Ireland because to do so would be a breach of the Oath. Furthermore an MP cannot be loyal to two countries at once. It is for this reason that many countries do not allow elected officials hold dual citizenship. Noel Whelan is asking SF MPs to put Britain first and Ireland last. Just how low can FF go?
There is absolutely no chance SF will do this - they know very well it would cost them very, very dearly at the next Election.
Noel Whelan now needs to challenge FF to stand in the North and advocate that FF take the Oath of Allegiance to a British Queen.

Otherwise, it is clear he is simply mischief-making at FF's behest as FF are terrified at being squeezed by FG and SF.
 

Plebian

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Presumably this is to prevent Brexit ?

How would preventing Brexit achieve a united Ireland ?

If anything a hardest Brexit possible will bring about a United Ireland.
Indeed, but I'm assuming ( there's no link in the OP) that Whelan is talking about SFs votes preventing a hard Brexit border. That might be theoretically possible, but if there's one thing likely to put a Parliamentary majority behind Theresa May it would be the idea of SF/IRA ( imagine the Red Top headlines) trying to scupper Brexit.
 


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