Non-Naturalised Irish Citizens born abroad are discrimated against.

ruserious

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Children born abroad to an Irish parent(s) are Irish citizens by decent. This is automatic and does not remain an entitlement as is the case with people born in Northern Ireland, for example.

Many countries require prospective citizens to renounce their citizenship of their former country in order to take up their new nationality. To facilitate this, the Irish nationality acts allow for Irish citizens to renounce their Irish nationality.

Now, for the most part, it is relatively simple to regain your Irish nationality afterwards, say once you acquire your third country nationality or, you decide to return to Ireland in retirement. You just have to fill in a declaration of citizenship form and bang, once again you are an Irish citizen.

Unfortunately the nationality laws bizarrely restrict this to Former Irish citizens who were born on the island of Ireland.

So going back to our Irish child born abroad to Irish parents, should s/he have renounced citizenship to take up a third country nationality, s/he is now excluded from reclaiming their Irish nationality in the future. See the form below to see the requirement of being born on the island of Ireland for reclaiming citizenship.

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/alldfawebsitemedia/passportcitizenship/declaration-of-citizenship.pdf

Effectively this means that not all Irish citizens are equal. Why automatic citizens born abroad can not reclaim citizenship is beyond me, and I think would be open to a Supreme Court challenge.

What would happen, if this hypothetical child were to be stripped of their third country nationality for whatever reason. They would then be rendered Stateless.
 


ne0ica

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Children born abroad to an Irish parent(s) are Irish citizens by decent. This is automatic and does not remain an entitlement as is the case with people born in Northern Ireland, for example.

Many countries require prospective citizens to renounce their citizenship of their former country in order to take up their new nationality. To facilitate this, the Irish nationality acts allow for Irish citizens to renounce their Irish nationality.

Now, for the most part, it is relatively simple to regain your Irish nationality afterwards, say once you acquire your third country nationality or, you decide to return to Ireland in retirement. You just have to fill in a declaration of citizenship form and bang, once again you are an Irish citizen.

Unfortunately the nationality laws bizarrely restrict this to Former Irish citizens who were born on the island of Ireland.

So going back to our Irish child born abroad to Irish parents, should s/he have renounced citizenship to take up a third country nationality, s/he is now excluded from reclaiming their Irish nationality in the future. See the form below to see the requirement of being born on the island of Ireland for reclaiming citizenship.

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/alldfawebsitemedia/passportcitizenship/declaration-of-citizenship.pdf

Effectively this means that not all Irish citizens are equal. Why automatic citizens born abroad can not reclaim citizenship is beyond me, and I think would be open to a Supreme Court challenge.

What would happen, if this hypothetical child were to be stripped of their third country nationality for whatever reason. They would then be rendered Stateless.
If their parents renounced their Irish citizenship. All I can say is f:cool::cool:K em.
 

Beachcomber

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Children born abroad to an Irish parent(s) are Irish citizens by decent. This is automatic and does not remain an entitlement as is the case with people born in Northern Ireland, for example.

Many countries require prospective citizens to renounce their citizenship of their former country in order to take up their new nationality. To facilitate this, the Irish nationality acts allow for Irish citizens to renounce their Irish nationality.

Now, for the most part, it is relatively simple to regain your Irish nationality afterwards, say once you acquire your third country nationality or, you decide to return to Ireland in retirement. You just have to fill in a declaration of citizenship form and bang, once again you are an Irish citizen.

Unfortunately the nationality laws bizarrely restrict this to Former Irish citizens who were born on the island of Ireland.

So going back to our Irish child born abroad to Irish parents, should s/he have renounced citizenship to take up a third country nationality, s/he is now excluded from reclaiming their Irish nationality in the future. See the form below to see the requirement of being born on the island of Ireland for reclaiming citizenship.

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/alldfawebsitemedia/passportcitizenship/declaration-of-citizenship.pdf

Effectively this means that not all Irish citizens are equal. Why automatic citizens born abroad can not reclaim citizenship is beyond me, and I think would be open to a Supreme Court challenge.

What would happen, if this hypothetical child were to be stripped of their third country nationality for whatever reason. They would then be rendered Stateless.


By decent?
 

silverharp

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So going back to our Irish child born abroad to Irish parents, should s/he have renounced citizenship to take up a third country nationality, s/he is now excluded from reclaiming their Irish nationality in the future. See the form below to see the requirement of being born on the island of Ireland for reclaiming citizenship.
it sounds more like a theoretical problem than a real one. Lots of countries have a decision time when a child turn 18, the chances of an Irish person becoming stateless is 0 unless you really tried hard. No Irish person or their kids are going to give up an EU passports for some Central African country, the other country will be the US Canada or similar.
My kids have 2 passports but I cant remember what happens at 18, I believe they are supposed to choose but I don't know if countries cross check?
 

Old Mr Grouser

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... So going back to our Irish child born abroad to Irish parents, should s/he have renounced citizenship to take up a third country nationality, s/he is now excluded from reclaiming their Irish nationality in the future ... Effectively this means that not all Irish citizens are equal. Why automatic citizens born abroad can not reclaim citizenship is beyond me, and I think would be open to a Supreme Court challenge ...
But have you considered what the cost to the Public Purse would be if the law was otherwise?

There's an awful lot of very poor Americans.
 

Beachcomber

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If their parents renounced their Irish citizenship. All I can say is f:cool::cool:K em.
And if the child who was born outside Ireland renounces their Irish citizenship, why should they be able to have it reinstated?

It isn't as if they may later decide to "return to Ireland" for their retirement. They may never have been to Ireland in their life.

I don't see what the OP is complaining about. If at some point they renounce their Irish citizenship then that's their decision. It's tough if they want it back later.
 

ruserious

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it sounds more like a theoretical problem than a real one. Lots of countries have a decision time when a child turn 18, the chances of an Irish person becoming stateless is 0 unless you really tried hard. No Irish person or their kids are going to give up an EU passports for some Central African country, the other country will be the US Canada or similar.
My kids have 2 passports but I cant remember what happens at 18, I believe they are supposed to choose but I don't know if countries cross check?
It's not at all beyond the bounds of possibility. Say a child born in UK after 1981 to Irish parents can only claim Irish citizenship. If he returned with his family to Ireland as a toddler, and in later life moved to Japan for work. Several years go by and he loves life in Japan and applied for citizenship. He would be required to renounce Irish nationality and by virtue of the fact he was not born on the island of Ireland despite growing up in Ireland and was a citizen from birth, he cannot reclaim Irish citizenship.
 

Beachcomber

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it sounds more like a theoretical problem than a real one. Lots of countries have a decision time when a child turn 18, the chances of an Irish person becoming stateless is 0 unless you really tried hard. No Irish person or their kids are going to give up an EU passports for some Central African country, the other country will be the US Canada or similar.
My kids have 2 passports but I cant remember what happens at 18, I believe they are supposed to choose but I don't know if countries cross check?

Well there are a few people like Terry the Jihadi - he may have taken up citizenship of some tinpot entity and abandoned Ireland in the process.
 

GDPR

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To the best of my knowledge there have only ever been two cases filed in Ireland requiring the country to comply with its obligations under the 1954 UN Convention on Stateless Persons and the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness.

In one case at least, the applicant was not seeking leave to remain in Ireland as an Irish citizen, but to get the hell out of it to anywhere that would take him.
 

Beachcomber

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It's not at all beyond the bounds of possibility. Say a child born in UK after 1981 to Irish parents can only claim Irish citizenship. If he returned with his family to Ireland as a toddler, and in later life moved to Japan for work. Several years go by and he loves life in Japan and applied for citizenship. He would be required to renounce Irish nationality and by virtue of the fact he was not born on the island of Ireland despite growing up in Ireland and was a citizen from birth, he cannot reclaim Irish citizenship.

Well that's just tough.

If he loves Japan that much then obviously he feels more Japanese than Irish. You are saying that he chooses to apply for Japanese citizenship aren't you? He must know that this involves giving up his Irish citizenship, as it is part of the process.
 

ruserious

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Well that's just tough.

If he loves Japan that much then obviously he feels more Japanese than Irish. You are saying that he chooses to apply for Japanese citizenship aren't you? He must know that this involves giving up his Irish citizenship, as it is part of the process.
It wouldn't be publicly acknowledged but the reason reclaiming citizenship is so easy for those born on the island is because the government recognised that renouncing citizenship in the first place was an administrative action necessary to uptake new nationality in accordance with the acceptance that your citizens are free to move abroad and reclaim it on the sly soon after.
 

Clanrickard

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It's not at all beyond the bounds of possibility. Say a child born in UK after 1981 to Irish parents can only claim Irish citizenship. If he returned with his family to Ireland as a toddler, and in later life moved to Japan for work. Several years go by and he loves life in Japan and applied for citizenship. He would be required to renounce Irish nationality and by virtue of the fact he was not born on the island of Ireland despite growing up in Ireland and was a citizen from birth, he cannot reclaim Irish citizenship.
If you have a parent or grandparent born on the island of Ireland you are entitled to citizenship. Since when has that changed?
 

ruserious

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If you have a parent or grandparent born on the island of Ireland you are entitled to citizenship. Since when has that changed?
Oh Christ. Have any of you read the OP. The child is indeed a citizen by virtue of his parents and moves back
to Ireland as a toddler. In later life he lives in say Japan. He renounces his citizenship as required by the Japanese. He cannot reclaim his citizenship as he was not born on the island of Ireland.
https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/alldfawebsitemedia/passportcitizenship/declaration-of-citizenship.pdf

Read the requirements.
 

ruserious

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Going on from this, if we bring it to a logical conclusion, since we dropped Jus Soli in 2005, we could face a situation in the future that children born in Ireland to foreign parents after 2005 who was not born a citizen due to the length of time their parents resided here could naturalise later on and then later again, renounce like the child in the OP. In this case, as the child was born in Ireland, they could reclaim their citizenship.
So a naturalised citizen born in Ireland after 2005 would actually have more rights than a child born to Irish parents abroad with regard to reclaiming citizenship after previously renouncing it.
 

Hunter-Gatherer

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with 'rights' comes duties.

the duty to ....pay tax, perform military service, speak the lingo, spend time in the country, try to find work, conform to the mores of society, etc etc..


these days everybody knows their rights....and they couldnt give a toss about the other stuff.
 


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