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Dan_Murphy

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Where is this stuff about Noonan being reliant on briefers coming from. The guy has a solid grasp of finance, in fact he famously eviscerated Charlie McCreevy's tax-individualisation budget in the Dáil.
Fianna Fáil backbenchers who had been whooping & cheering McCreevy's budget, visibly slumped back in their seats as Noonan went through the legislation with a fine tooth comb, pointing out the enormous holes in it.




The 'beast' returns - Irish, Business - Independent.ie
Would this be available online?
 

flavirostris

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Why did he listen to them when he was a minister? or do you regard his handling of the Hep C cases a resounding success?
Definitely not. It pretty much destroyed his career but it dosen't prove that's he's hopelessly dependent on briefers
 

flavirostris

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harpsman

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noonan does seem a bit lethargic-mind you if youre stupid enough not to see how terrible brian lenihan(saint) has been,then noonan landing few punches isnt going to make much difference
 

hiding behind a poster

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Now considering we have/had the two worst Finance ministers (Clowen-Lendahand) it amazes me that neither Noonan or Bruton have ever landed even a body shot of significance to Bill and Ben,i mean FFS they are there for the taking yet neither can step up to the plate???
The thing I can never work out is, what exactly constitutes "landing a body shot", or "landing a punch", or whatever. They don't debate each other directly, Lenihan won't face Noonan in TV studios just like he wouldn't face Bruton, but what I've noticed lately is far fewer people saying stuff like "at least Lenihan knows what he's doing". So kindly define WHAT in this context is "landing a punch", please.
 

wombat

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Definitely not. It pretty much destroyed his career but it dosen't prove that's he's hopelessly dependent on briefers
It doesn't prove anything but Lenihan is also a fine Dáil performer, yet he takes advice from those who got us into the mess. My doubt about Noonan as MoF is that he would do the same and his previous record as MoH supports that doubt.
 

flavirostris

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It doesn't prove anything but Lenihan is also a fine Dáil performer, yet he takes advice from those who got us into the mess. My doubt about Noonan as MoF is that he would do the same and his previous record as MoH supports that doubt.
This is Noonan's third stint as Fine Gael Finance Spokesman. He's a grizzled veteran not a noddy like Lenihan ( who really is hopelessly dependent on clueless briefers )
 

selkies

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The thing I can never work out is, what exactly constitutes "landing a body shot", or "landing a punch", or whatever. They don't debate each other directly, Lenihan won't face Noonan in TV studios just like he wouldn't face Bruton, but what I've noticed lately is far fewer people saying stuff like "at least Lenihan knows what he's doing". So kindly define WHAT in this context is "landing a punch", please.
QFE

Also in your explanation please give an example of it happening in a Dail debate
 

wombat

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The thing I can never work out is, what exactly constitutes "landing a body shot", or "landing a punch", or whatever. .
You could go up to the National Stadium some Saturday;)
Its too serious for the TV theatrics that pass for Dáil debates - Bruton got it right, let the govt bring their proposals to a commitee where it can be discussed, line by line, no drama, just hard work.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Remember that Noonan is only in the job because Bruton botched the heave and O'Donnell knifed Kenny within 48 hours of succeeding him. He's a long way below his peak but he probably realises that he's only a place holder. It's all but certain that Lab will get Finance in the next government and he's not likely to feature in Kenny's cabinet line up. Why kill yourself when you can sit back and take the CC job.
That's not all but certain at all, except in the mind of a deluded fantasist who thinks party leaders should negotiate cabinet posts on live TV two years before an election.

You, in other words.
 

justme1

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The thing I can never work out is, what exactly constitutes "landing a body shot", or "landing a punch", or whatever. They don't debate each other directly, Lenihan won't face Noonan in TV studios just like he wouldn't face Bruton, but what I've noticed lately is far fewer people saying stuff like "at least Lenihan knows what he's doing". So kindly define WHAT in this context is "landing a punch", please.
Kindly tell me that in this 'context' do they need to be facing each other to land a blow?????
 

hiding behind a poster

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Noonan hasn't the intellectual depth for Finance, currently I'd back Joan Burton by some distance over him for MoF in a FG/Lab coalition.
Go on then, give us even one example of this supposed "intellectual depth". Because if you're stimulated by her annual whining Budget response, always containing the same formula of a named couple - "Minister, John and Mary earn 45,000, they have 2 children and a car, and what you've done is blah blah blah", then your opinion is fairly irrelevant when it comes to "intellectual depth".
 

Rocket Man

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I would have known one of Noonan's closest advisors during his time in Health.
He was hugely impressed by Noonan's ability to command any brief he was given.
My own view is that he is better in opposition than in government. His forensic ability to spot a flaw in an argument makes him well suited to this role.
However his period as Health Minister was disastrous and the less said about his time as leader the better.
 

brughahaha

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The thing I can never work out is, what exactly constitutes "landing a body shot", or "landing a punch", or whatever. They don't debate each other directly, Lenihan won't face Noonan in TV studios just like he wouldn't face Bruton, but what I've noticed lately is far fewer people saying stuff like "at least Lenihan knows what he's doing". So kindly define WHAT in this context is "landing a punch", please.
I think - without any Dail set pieces currently grabbing any air time - Landing a punch could probably be defined as dictating the parameters of the debate ... something being done very succesfully by both FG and Lab at the moment

They've kept the focus on the Banking crisis (bigger sums more shock value) when our biggerl problem is our income / expenditure deficit (a far longer term problem IMHO) FF cant escape the banking crisis and concentration on the deficit would mean some difficult questions for the opposition (especially Labour)...so in political terms some good work by the opposition (although I think Labour are in Danger of over egging it, there was certainly a harsher tone and more criticism of Burton on drivetime yesterday)


In those terms I think both FG and Lab have been "landing punches" as born out by the opinion polls ...and Noonan has been performing very well in my opinion ...far better than I expected and better than Bruton did
 

hiding behind a poster

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She's not super... but she is adequate, a thing that I noticed about her is that she asks the right questions, and avoids bluffing - she has a pretty solid internal grasp of finance and economics (even if I disagree with her normative views)
Oh, so she "avoids bluffing", does she? You mustn't watch The Week In Politics", then:

The Week in Politics - RT News Player
 

Panopticon

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Lenihan won't face Noonan in TV studios just like he wouldn't face Bruton, but what I've noticed lately is far fewer people saying stuff like "at least Lenihan knows what he's doing".
Seriously? So you seriously think that Noonan's performance affects Lenihan's reputation more than the fiscal disasters in the last two months?

I'm getting a little bit tired of the FG insiders who act like their opinions are true because they are insiders.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Kindly tell me that in this 'context' do they need to be facing each other to land a blow?????
Well no-one has yet defined what a blow, in this context, actually is. (please folks, no innuendo.....)
 

hiding behind a poster

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Seriously? So you seriously think that Noonan's performance affects Lenihan's reputation more than the fiscal disasters in the last two months?

I'm getting a little bit tired of the FG insiders who act like their opinions are true because they are insiders.
Well I'm not an FG insider, and I didn't say that - so I'm not sure how I can respond to your post. But again, how do you define an opposition spokesman "landing a blow"? Because if you're waiting for a minister to say "ah that's it, he killed me with his oratory, he knows his sums, I'm resigning", then you'll be waiting a long, long time.
 

wombat

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I'm getting a little bit tired of the FG insiders who act like their opinions are true because they are insiders.
I'm more worried by the actions of the FF insiders - they are in power and their opinions have been consistently wrong.
 

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