"normalising" us Irish. Shameful or a sign of 'maturity', the obsequious engagement with our former masters?

Itsalaugh

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"normalising" us Irish. Shameful or a sign of 'maturity', the obsequious engagement with our former masters?

On another thread a poster thanked individuals during the period 1970-2000 from this country who gained fame in Britain for "normalising" the Irish. The post colonial cringe - we had to make ourselves acceptable to our oppressors. Is this what many of my compatriots actually believe?
Dr Mary Hickman, director of the Irish Studies Centre at the University of North London, says in her book, Religion, Class and Identity, that since the Anglo-Norman invasion in the 12th century the English have tried to justify their attacks on Ireland by racism. She said yesterday: "Many people assume that current English hostility or discrimination towards the Irish is the result of events in Northern Ireland so they see it as regrettable but understandable."
https://www.google.com/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/irish-butt-of-english-racism-for-more-than-eight-centuries-1342976.html?amp

Throughout the 20th C. the normal' English - from my experience I believe a large majority - liked us Irish and accepted our right to independence. The imperilialist supporting minority feared our freedom because they knew it'd inspire the anti-colonial spirit throughout their vast empire. A very soft nationalist poster made a salient point many moons back, which I'd never considered before, namely, that our unrequited love to the British Empire, deeply wounded them, almost to the point of heartbreak, and hence the dissed lover partitioned our country knowing the inevitable traumas it'd beseech.

Travel anywhere in the world and we're respected for standing up to the Empire in 1916. Well except for a handfull of caricature Aussie/Kiwi neanderthal loyalists. Ghandi paid homage to Ireland's defiance. While Nelson Mandela believed militant Irish Republicanism was a justifiable outlet. Even during 'the troubles' a large majority in England supported disengagement from NE Ireland. Their most iconic poets John Lennon and Paul McCartney were outspoken against Westminister sponsored abuses in Ireland. Any future ref on reunification is likely to show 80%+ support among the English. Their atonement is almost complete.

But despite this many Irish nationals behave as if we must apologise. This humble submissiveness is now hopefully on the wane, but certainly, must have been badly damaging to the national character. Unchecked nationalism is of course corrosive, but the abject deference displayed in this country to please our former masters was pitiful and embarrassing. It led us to abandoning our kin in Northern Ireland, and what is more actually doing high-fives with the Orange supremacists. Gay Byrne leading a standing ovation for Ian Paisley in the mid 80ies? Pride diseappered from the national narrative and we called this maturity. Shameful is how most of the globe would have whispered out of politeness. No wonder we let ourselfs be mocked back then. Imagine Israeli's behaving like us. They now have most of the English Establishment bending to their will as if the 'King David Hotel' never happened.
 
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Cruimh

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On another thread a poster thanked individuals during the period 1970-2000 from this country who gained fame in Britain for "normalising" the Irish. The post colonial cringe - we had to make ourselves acceptable to our oppressors. Is this what many of my compatriots actually believe?

Throughout the 20th C. the normal' English - from my experience I believe a large majority - liked us Irish and accepted our right to independence. The imperilialist supporting minority feared our freedom because they knew it'd inspire the anti-colonial spirit throughout their vast empire. A very soft nationalist poster made a salient point many moons back, which I'd never considered before, namely, that our non-bequathed love to the British Empire, deeply wounded them, almost to the point of heartbreak, and hence the dissed lover partitioned our country knowing the inevitable traumas it'd beseech.

Travel anywhere in the world and we're respected for standing up to the Empire in 1916. Well except for a handfull of Aussie/Kiwi neanderthal loyalists. Even during 'the troubles' a large majority in England supported disengagement from NE Ireland and any future ref on reunification is likely to show 80%+ support among the English. Their atonement is almost complete.

But despite this many Irish nationals behave as if we must apologise. This humble submissiveness is now hopefully on the wane, but certainly, must have been badly damaging to the national character. Unchecked nationalism is of course corrosive, but the abject deference displayed in this country to please our former masters was pitiful and embarrassing. It led us to abandoning our kin in Northern Ireland, and what is more actually doing high-fives with the Orange supremacists. Gay Byrne leading a standing ovation for Ian Paisley in the mid 80ies? Pride diseappered from the national narrative and we called this maturity. Shameful is how most of the globe would have whispered out of politeness. No wonder we let ourselfs be mocked back then. Imagine Israeli's behaving like us. They now have most of the English Establishment bending to their will as if the 'King David Hotel' never happened.
God help us if you consider yourself or many of the people here as "normal".....
 

Mitsui2

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On another thread a poster thanked individuals during the period 1970-2000 from this country who gained fame in Britain for "normalising" the Irish. The post colonial cringe - we had to make ourselves acceptable to our oppressors. Is this what many of my compatriots actually believe?

Throughout the 20th C. the normal' English - from my experience I believe a large majority - liked us Irish and accepted our right to independence. The imperilialist supporting minority feared our freedom because they knew it'd inspire the anti-colonial spirit throughout their vast empire. A very soft nationalist poster made a salient point many moons back, which I'd never considered before, namely, that our non-bequathed love to the British Empire, deeply wounded them, almost to the point of heartbreak, and hence the dissed lover partitioned our country knowing the inevitable traumas it'd beseech.

Travel anywhere in the world and we're respected for standing up to the Empire in 1916. Well except for a handfull of Aussie/Kiwi neanderthal loyalists. Even during 'the troubles' a large majority in England supported disengagement from NE Ireland and any future ref on reunification is likely to show 80%+ support among the English. Their atonement is almost complete.

But despite this many Irish nationals behave as if we must apologise. This humble submissiveness is now hopefully on the wane, but certainly, must have been badly damaging to the national character. Unchecked nationalism is of course corrosive, but the abject deference displayed in this country to please our former masters was pitiful and embarrassing. It led us to abandoning our kin in Northern Ireland, and what is more actually doing high-fives with the Orange supremacists. Gay Byrne leading a standing ovation for Ian Paisley in the mid 80ies? Pride diseappered from the national narrative and we called this maturity. Shameful is how most of the globe would have whispered out of politeness. No wonder we let ourselfs be mocked back then. Imagine Israeli's behaving like us. They now have most of the English Establishment bending to their will as if the 'King David Hotel' never happened.
That's a rather peculiar view of our history I must say - and I speak as one who finds much of our actual history pretty vomitous anwyay.
 

Itsalaugh

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That's a rather peculiar view of our history I must say - and I speak as one who finds much of our actual history pretty vomitous anwyay.
Conor Cruise O'Brien transformed the Republic of Ireland into nothing more than a 'vichy-esque'vassal state?
Imagine the cognitive dissonance of supporting Israel born out rebellion against the British but decrying Irish national aspirations. Well Cruiser's 'CD' was rampant across Ireland with various 'mature' Irish hating American meddling across the globe but silent on Westminsiter and its war machine using NE Ireland as a rarified training ground for their spooks and generals.
 
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InsideImDancing

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That's a rather peculiar view of our history I must say - and I speak as one who finds much of our actual history pretty vomitous anwyay.
Why?
 

former wesleyan

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I imagine that that's unrequited love you mean.
 

Catalpast

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I lived in London in the late '70s and always stood up for Ireland and told them they should get out

To be fair I encountered very little anti Irish feeling

They hated the IRA though and couldn't understand why their Squaddies were being killed

-keeping those Mad Paddies from cutting each others throats....:confused:
 

Levellers

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If you want to build an empire you must demean and dehumanise the conquered subjects. There is nothing casual about this kind of racism.
 

Watcher2

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On another thread a poster thanked individuals during the period 1970-2000 from this country who gained fame in Britain for "normalising" the Irish. The post colonial cringe - we had to make ourselves acceptable to our oppressors. Is this what many of my compatriots actually believe?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/irish-butt-of-english-racism-for-more-than-eight-centuries-1342976.html?amp

Throughout the 20th C. the normal' English - from my experience I believe a large majority - liked us Irish and accepted our right to independence. The imperilialist supporting minority feared our freedom because they knew it'd inspire the anti-colonial spirit throughout their vast empire. A very soft nationalist poster made a salient point many moons back, which I'd never considered before, namely, that our non-bequathed love to the British Empire, deeply wounded them, almost to the point of heartbreak, and hence the dissed lover partitioned our country knowing the inevitable traumas it'd beseech.

Travel anywhere in the world and we're respected for standing up to the Empire in 1916. Well except for a handfull of caricature Aussie/Kiwi neanderthal loyalists. Ghandi paid homage to Ireland's defiance. While Nelson Mandela believed militant Irish Republicanism was a justifiable outlet. Even during 'the troubles' a large majority in England supported disengagement from NE Ireland. Their most iconic poets John Lennon and Paul McCartney were outspoken against Westminister sponsored abuses in Ireland. Any future ref on reunification is likely to show 80%+ support among the English. Their atonement is almost complete.

But despite this many Irish nationals behave as if we must apologise. This humble submissiveness is now hopefully on the wane, but certainly, must have been badly damaging to the national character. Unchecked nationalism is of course corrosive, but the abject deference displayed in this country to please our former masters was pitiful and embarrassing. It led us to abandoning our kin in Northern Ireland, and what is more actually doing high-fives with the Orange supremacists. Gay Byrne leading a standing ovation for Ian Paisley in the mid 80ies? Pride diseappered from the national narrative and we called this maturity. Shameful is how most of the globe would have whispered out of politeness. No wonder we let ourselfs be mocked back then. Imagine Israeli's behaving like us. They now have most of the English Establishment bending to their will as if the 'King David Hotel' never happened.
Blah blah 800 years blah blah Brits bad blah blah
 

statsman

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To be fair, maturity is not something I'd accuse us of, on the whole.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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That's a rather peculiar view of our history I must say - and I speak as one who finds much of our actual history pretty vomitous anwyay.
Was in Glendalough yesterday, those monks with their campanile towers, little stone villages, small farms and hand written books allowed me to keep my lunch down.
 

blokesbloke

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If there is any greater irony in somebody on Politics.ie thanking anyone for "normalising" the Irish to anyone I cannot think of it at present.

Certainly Politics.ie has done a superb job of de-normalising Irish people to anyone unfortunate enough to stumble upon this website.
 

pumpkinpie

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As long as there is money to be made from anti English nonsense we are going to have this 800 years crap. Enough already, most English people have enough to be doing with their own lives and don't give Ireland or the Irish a second thought and we are exactly the same about England and the English.
 
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razorblade

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If some people got their way the whole of this island would be under British rule again.
 

Mitsui2

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If there is any greater irony in somebody on Politics.ie thanking anyone for "normalising" the Irish to anyone I cannot think of it at present.

Certainly Politics.ie has done a superb job of de-normalising Irish people to anyone unfortunate enough to stumble upon this website.
How very dare you, sir!

Are you insinuating that being completely crazy isn't a perfectly natural niche on the rich spectrum of human normality?

Of course it is! How else can you explain the likes of Brexit?
 

Mitsui2

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Was in Glendalough yesterday, those monks with their campanile towers, little stone villages, small farms and hand written books allowed me to keep my lunch down.
That was very nice of them I must say, SOC.

Did they charge for the permission?
 

McSlaggart

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But despite this many Irish nationals behave as if we must apologise. This humble submissiveness is now hopefully on the wane, but certainly, must have been badly damaging to the national character. Unchecked nationalism is of course corrosive, but the abject deference displayed in this country to please our former masters was pitiful and embarrassing. It led us to abandoning our kin in Northern Ireland, and what is more actually doing high-fives with the Orange supremacists. Gay Byrne leading a standing ovation for Ian Paisley in the mid 80ies?
Speaking as someone from a County "Tyrone" which should never have been in Northern Ireland and felt the full force of local and from the other Island people who wished to put us in out place. Let it rest.

"For what's done is done and what's won is won
And what's lost is lost and gone forever"

The Town I Loved So Well

Ian Paisley was a total bollixs but I actually liked him. One should not forget but at least try to forgive.
 

Se0samh

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Speaking as someone from a County "Tyrone" which should never have been in Northern Ireland and felt the full force of local and from the other Island people who wished to put us in out place. Let it rest.

"For what's done is done and what's won is won
And what's lost is lost and gone forever"

The Town I Loved So Well

Ian Paisley was a total bollixs but I actually liked him. One should not forget but at least try to forgive.

I didn't...........he frightened the life out of me in the earlyish '60's, when I was a young child walking along Belfast's Old Lodge Road with my Granny..........he was guldering for all he was worth about Catholics moving into the area :roll: presaged by a good 5 or 6 years the events to come.......that he mellowed somewhat in later years only mildly lessened my dislike and certainly didn't lessen his part in what happened.....:(
 


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