"normalising" us Irish. Shameful or a sign of 'maturity', the obsequious engagement with our former masters?

tsarbomb

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I think you must be imagining things. Irish people aren't self-loathing, self-deprecating yes and a lot of the youth identify more with Europe than with Ireland because they've been conditioned to but I'm not aware of deference to what you describe as former colonial masters. Ireland is a very welcoming country and people visit because of the open and warm welcome that they get from Irish people. There is a section of society, North and South of the border that will always continue to wallow in hatred and self pity for things that happened in a different century.
Irish people certainly do indulge in self loathing. One example is Lynch's deference to Ted Heath after Bloody Sunday, and there are plenty more of examples to choose from. You don't tend to get this in most other countries. Perhaps this is a legacy of colonialism? The need to grovel to some foreign power?
 


Blokesbloke

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Irish people certainly do indulge in self loathing. One example is Lynch's deference to Ted Heath after Bloody Sunday, and there are plenty more of examples to choose from. You don't tend to get this in most other countries. Perhaps this is a legacy of colonialism? The need to grovel to some foreign power?
Plenty of former colonies though...
 

JCR

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On another thread a poster thanked individuals during the period 1970-2000 from this country who gained fame in Britain for "normalising" the Irish. The post colonial cringe - we had to make ourselves acceptable to our oppressors. Is this what many of my compatriots actually believe?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/irish-butt-of-english-racism-for-more-than-eight-centuries-1342976.html?amp

Throughout the 20th C. the normal' English - from my experience I believe a large majority - liked us Irish and accepted our right to independence. The imperilialist supporting minority feared our freedom because they knew it'd inspire the anti-colonial spirit throughout their vast empire. A very soft nationalist poster made a salient point many moons back, which I'd never considered before, namely, that our unrequited love to the British Empire, deeply wounded them, almost to the point of heartbreak, and hence the dissed lover partitioned our country knowing the inevitable traumas it'd beseech.

Travel anywhere in the world and we're respected for standing up to the Empire in 1916. Well except for a handfull of caricature Aussie/Kiwi neanderthal loyalists. Ghandi paid homage to Ireland's defiance. While Nelson Mandela believed militant Irish Republicanism was a justifiable outlet. Even during 'the troubles' a large majority in England supported disengagement from NE Ireland. Their most iconic poets John Lennon and Paul McCartney were outspoken against Westminister sponsored abuses in Ireland. Any future ref on reunification is likely to show 80%+ support among the English. Their atonement is almost complete.

But despite this many Irish nationals behave as if we must apologise. This humble submissiveness is now hopefully on the wane, but certainly, must have been badly damaging to the national character. Unchecked nationalism is of course corrosive, but the abject deference displayed in this country to please our former masters was pitiful and embarrassing. It led us to abandoning our kin in Northern Ireland, and what is more actually doing high-fives with the Orange supremacists. Gay Byrne leading a standing ovation for Ian Paisley in the mid 80ies? Pride diseappered from the national narrative and we called this maturity. Shameful is how most of the globe would have whispered out of politeness. No wonder we let ourselfs be mocked back then. Imagine Israeli's behaving like us. They now have most of the English Establishment bending to their will as if the 'King David Hotel' never happened.
Like most people I'm completely sick of this kind of pathetic stuck in the past crap.
 

Blokesbloke

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True. I don't know if this is the case in other former colonies to be honest.
Ah, I see I got a "like".

Finally someone with intelligence.

Which part of Ireland are you from, dear?
 

stopdoingstuff

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That's a rather peculiar view of our history I must say - and I speak as one who finds much of our actual history pretty vomitous anwyay.
It's always harder to take when personally acquainted with some of the participants (and victims).
 

Blokesbloke

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:oops::oops::oops:

From Kerry. Live in Dublin.
:D

Let the above be an example to the rest of you!

It's clear to me you may be one of the Irish elite yourself in future.

Enjoy the success but beware the begrudgery!
 

Sweet Darling

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On another thread a poster thanked individuals during the period 1970-2000 from this country who gained fame in Britain for "normalising" the Irish. The post colonial cringe - we had to make ourselves acceptable to our oppressors. Is this what many of my compatriots actually believe?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/irish-butt-of-english-racism-for-more-than-eight-centuries-1342976.html?amp

Throughout the 20th C. the normal' English - from my experience I believe a large majority - liked us Irish and accepted our right to independence. The imperilialist supporting minority feared our freedom because they knew it'd inspire the anti-colonial spirit throughout their vast empire. A very soft nationalist poster made a salient point many moons back, which I'd never considered before, namely, that our unrequited love to the British Empire, deeply wounded them, almost to the point of heartbreak, and hence the dissed lover partitioned our country knowing the inevitable traumas it'd beseech.

Travel anywhere in the world and we're respected for standing up to the Empire in 1916. Well except for a handfull of caricature Aussie/Kiwi neanderthal loyalists. Ghandi paid homage to Ireland's defiance. While Nelson Mandela believed militant Irish Republicanism was a justifiable outlet. Even during 'the troubles' a large majority in England supported disengagement from NE Ireland. Their most iconic poets John Lennon and Paul McCartney were outspoken against Westminister sponsored abuses in Ireland. Any future ref on reunification is likely to show 80%+ support among the English. Their atonement is almost complete.

But despite this many Irish nationals behave as if we must apologise. This humble submissiveness is now hopefully on the wane, but certainly, must have been badly damaging to the national character. Unchecked nationalism is of course corrosive, but the abject deference displayed in this country to please our former masters was pitiful and embarrassing. It led us to abandoning our kin in Northern Ireland, and what is more actually doing high-fives with the Orange supremacists. Gay Byrne leading a standing ovation for Ian Paisley in the mid 80ies? Pride diseappered from the national narrative and we called this maturity. Shameful is how most of the globe would have whispered out of politeness. No wonder we let ourselfs be mocked back then. Imagine Israeli's behaving like us. They now have most of the English Establishment bending to their will as if the 'King David Hotel' never happened.
You have gotten over the Vikings .Given a bit more time I'm sure you will get over the nasty Brits
 

pumpkinpie

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Irish people certainly do indulge in self loathing. One example is Lynch's deference to Ted Heath after Bloody Sunday, and there are plenty more of examples to choose from. You don't tend to get this in most other countries. Perhaps this is a legacy of colonialism? The need to grovel to some foreign power?
Remind me of what century we are in.
 

Sweet Darling

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Well, it's certainly true to say that our biggest failing as a nation is our pitiful self loathing, so with that in mind it shouldn't come as a surprise that so many people are deferential to our former colonial masters.
Maybe the current generation working there in high end jobs, have removed the caricature of the navvie, sad drunk, tarnackers, petrol bomb maker, Plus the type of emigrant that came after us made the English realise we were not so bad.
 

pumpkinpie

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Maybe the current generation working there in high end jobs, have removed the caricature of the navvie, sad drunk, tarnackers, petrol bomb maker, Plus the type of emigrant that came after us made the English realise we were not so bad.
We were a stereotype because of the heavy drink wife beating crap that went on with Irish emigrants. Britain is full of emigrants, working there you'll be working with people from all over the world. Of course you'll get the odd idiot who will mouth off about the Irish but most people don't care where you come from, they're only interested in how you are with them, who you are as a person. Some Irish are so hostile and racist towards the English for things that happened so long ago many of our youths don't even know about it. I'd say there's a lot more hate from the Irish to the English than the other way around.
 

Sweet Darling

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One great recent example of our madness is the idea that the whole of one side of Moore St. should be preserved in its origional decrepit state just because a few chancers used it in an abject retreat from a stupid rebellion.
Their puffed up, self-important descendants give me a severe pain in my lunch box.

I agree, this bunch of free loaders have being dining out on 1916 for to long, What other country would preserve the shame of there surrender site.
Germans blew up there's in France. it's all about "remember your a downtrodden victim"
 

Sweet Darling

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Certainly there was quite a bit of scapegoating on the part of leave voters, but there were plenty of good reasons to vote to leave the EU also. In some quarters in Ireland there's a 'yes sir, yes sir, three bags full sir' attitude towards the EU, and that's what is really at the heart of the hostility towards leave voters.
We have tried commy style isolation before, didn't work.
Joining the EEC for this country was a huge leap forward for freeing the Irish people from backward leaders and institutions.
 

Degeneration X

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We have tried commy style isolation before, didn't work.
Joining the EEC for this country was a huge leap forward for the Irish people.
It was never really isolation though was it?

Countries like Japan have undergone that kind of inward looking isolation at points in their history but not Ireland.
 

Gin Soaked

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I didn't...........he frightened the life out of me in the earlyish '60's, when I was a young child walking along Belfast's Old Lodge Road with my Granny..........he was guldering for all he was worth about Catholics moving into the area :roll: presaged by a good 5 or 6 years the events to come.......that he mellowed somewhat in later years only mildly lessened my dislike and certainly didn't lessen his part in what happened.....:(
That's the thing about Paisley. He was a monster and a complete bigot. Often think he was shamed into the veneer of decency through societal pressure and his approaching date with judgement...
 

runwiththewind

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As long as there is money to be made from anti English nonsense we are going to have this 800 years crap. Enough already, most English people have enough to be doing with their own lives and don't give Ireland or the Irish a second thought and we are exactly the same about England and the English.
You should read the comments section on any British newspaper whenever Ireland is mentioned and you will discover the British have no live for the Iris.
 

runwiththewind

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Well I'm awful fond of you...
I have to second Strawberry's statement. Your admiration for certain people is downright weird.

What British people do you like just for a sense of balance?
 


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