North Korea is Great Again! Well Done, Mr Trump .... !

owedtojoy

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It is refreshing to see a country, formerly derided and disrespected, becoming Great again.

Thanks, Mr Trump, all of North Korea is in your debt!

However, it is equally dispiriting to see a murderous kleptocrat score easy wins over the gullible and foolish leader of a democracy. It was vital for Trump to "take the first trick". But he did not even gain one. In this round, Kim scooped the pot.

Formerly a pariah, NK Leader Kim Jong Un has engaged in diplomacy with (allegedly) the Most Powerful Man in the World, and (at least , according to himself) the Best Deal-maker in the World. Kim scored significant victories on every point. Several issues that were allegedly critical were dropped in the final communique.

  • Holding the meeting was a major concession to Kim in the first place. His appearance as a international celebrity in Singapore and photos with the President of the United States, against a backdrop with the flags of both countries side-by-side, is a massive propaganda victory seen on every news bulletin in every country in the world.
  • Secretary of State Pompeo sought "verifable, irreversible and complete denuclearisation" of North Korea the day before the talks. The final communique dropped the three adjectives.
  • Denuclearisation was applied to "the Korean peninsula", committing the US to a quid pro quo, something that will worry the Japanese and South Koreans.
  • Analysts had recommended the US seek a "down payment" on denuclearisation to gain assurances of Kim's intentions, such as some missiles scrapped straightaway. We do not know if it was even suggested.
  • Outside the talks, Trump announced that the military exercises with South Korea would be discontinued. These exercises infuriated North Korea, and their ending is a major concession by Trump - again, apparently, without any reciprocation by Kim. It seems South Korea had not been told about this.
  • Human rights were never discussed, but Trump said he intended to invite the murderous tyrant Kim to the United States, and to the White House. Again, a concession with no reciprocation.
  • The President began by declaring how "honoured" he was to meet a blood-stained tyrant. This was excessively effusive and undignified for the leader of a country that respects the rule of law (doesn't it?).
  • Trump did state the sanctions regime would stay in place, but statements today by Chinese officials suggest that the Chinese will not now apply sanctions stringently. Russia probably never did. Kim' regime is safe, his nuclear weapons are in place, and he can continue laboratory testing.
  • Apparently, Trump made a big play about American investment in North Korea. This is delusional. China will never allow America to assume any major influence in North Korea. Kim will be sensible enough to integrate his economy more closely with China and Russia, who are neighbours, and whose authoritarian systems are just milder versions of his own.

Trump came straight to Singapore from a disastrous and acrimonious meeting with his closest allies. He pointedly did not want to meet them, and did not leave Quebec with their praise and encouragement. This Singapore meeting failed to revive any confidence that the President really knows how to conduct international diplomacy, or if his anti-diplomatic disruptiveness can bear fruit.

Let's look on the bright side - a year ago, these two sides were threatening war. No doubt, talks will continue, hopefully until at least Trump leaves office. It is entirely probable that North Korea will still have nuclear weapons at that time. Let us hope Trump never realises the extent of his folly - in may even be folly in a good cause, if it averts war.

5b1f20a92200003000eeb27f.jpg
 


GDPR

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The DPRK was always great - fantastic - but Trump has made her even greater.
 

NYCKY

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When was North Korea ever great? Not that it is now, it's still a third world banana republic with a tyrant in charge.
 

Vega1447

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When was North Korea ever great? Not that it is now, it's still a third world banana republic with a tyrant in charge.
NK is a third world rice republic with a tyrant in charge - with nukes.

The US is a First World flawed democracy with a populist in charge - with lotsa nukes.
 

owedtojoy

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When was North Korea ever great? Not that it is now, it's still a third world banana republic with a tyrant in charge.
Never great with the irony, were you?

I have just heard your President effusively praising said tyrant from a banana republic as "very talented", and defending the phrase by saying how "tough" he was. Apparently, Trump finds a tyrant from a banana republic more congenial than the Prime Minister of the neighbouring democracy.

But you knew Trump prefers bloody tyrants (and probably envies them) since he went chummy with the murderer Duterte of the Philippines.
 

Betson

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OP another example of Trump derangement syndrome in full flow , you would rather see a nuclear war than give Trump credit for anything.

Just like liberal Bil Maher saying he was rather see a recession and people losing their jobs on a mass scale than see Trump get any credit for the economy. At least he is been honest about every other anti Trumper is really thinking.
 

owedtojoy

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NK is a third world rice republic with a tyrant in charge - with nukes.

The US is a First World flawed democracy with a populist in charge - with lotsa nukes.
"Populist" is the wrong word.

"Neofascist" is more accurate.
 

Catalpast

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South Korea is now strong enough to withstand any conventional attack by the North

- it does not need Uncle Sam anymore

The US Forces on station are really there for political rather than military reasons

- namely that any attack on Seoul will be taken as a DOW on the USA too...

So cancelling those exercises is not as big a deal as it first appears.
 

owedtojoy

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OP another example of Trump derangement syndrome in full flow , you would rather see a nuclear war than give Trump credit for anything.

Just like liberal Bil Maher saying he was rather see a recession and people losing their jobs on a mass scale than see Trump get any credit for the economy. At least he is been honest about every other anti Trumper is really thinking.
How did Bill Maher get in here?

Let me make it clear that I am glad these two tyrants (one real, Trump a wannabe) are talking to each other. Jaw-jaw is better than war-war. There never was an alternative to talks - except that John Bolton does not agree, and it seemed Trump didn't either for a while.

But Trump's "diplomacy" is shyte. Singapore will turn out worse than Quebec, only it will taken longer for it to be obvious.

And I also believe that Kim has no intention of giving up his nukes. I just hope Trump is gone out of office when it becomes clear he is being played.
 

owedtojoy

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News on BBC that Kim's plane is not heading for North Korea.

It is heading for Peking.

Xi Jinping may be the big winner tonight, as he can now quietly drop sanctions on North Korea.
 

NativeWildCat

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[video=youtube;bu9D_Vfgb_s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu9D_Vfgb_s&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 

Politics matters

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What's wrong with America restoring diplomatic relations with another country?

If human rights abuses doesn't bother America when it deals with the United Arab Emirates, why should it when it comes to Korea?
 

Elvis jaffacake

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News on BBC that Kim's plane is not heading for North Korea.

It is heading for Peking.

Xi Jinping may be the big winner tonight, as he can now quietly drop sanctions on North Korea.
Chinese must be delighted, wedge between US-SK-Japan. Presence of USFK called into question by POTUS, hell even joint exercises...
 

owedtojoy

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What's wrong with America restoring diplomatic relations with another country?

If human rights abuses doesn't bother America when it deals with the United Arab Emirates, why should it when it comes to Korea?
The point is that Trump was supposed to have Leverage with Kim to gain some concessions.

He did not get a single one. Kim got them all.

Trump promised Shinzo Abe he would tackle Kim over Japanese citizens kidnapped by North Korea. It seems not to have been mentioned. Otto Warmbier got a token mention afterwards, but licking up to a tyrant who murdered US citizens .... is that what a President of the USA, the most powerful man in the world, does now?
 

devoutcapitalist

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What has been the reaction of prominent Republican politicians back in America especially those of the neo-conservative persuasion?
 

Buchaill Dana

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What's wrong with America restoring diplomatic relations with another country?

If human rights abuses doesn't bother America when it deals with the United Arab Emirates, why should it when it comes to Korea?
Nothing. Until he changes his mind like Iran. But there is something iffy about his decorum here versus with his allies at/after the G7.

Time will tell how this pans out, but it looks like NK did better today.
 

NativeWildCat

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What has been the reaction of prominent Republican politicians back in America especially those of the neo-conservative persuasion?
McCain will need to leech off another infants soul to manage to hold on for another month at this rate.
 

Dr Pat

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10,041
It is refreshing to see a country, formerly derided and disrespected, becoming Great again.

Thanks, Mr Trump, all of North Korea is in your debt!

However, it is equally dispiriting to see a murderous kleptocrat score easy wins over the gullible and foolish leader of a democracy. It was vital for Trump to "take the first trick". But he did not even gain one. In this round, Kim scooped the pot.

Formerly a pariah, NK Leader Kim Jong Un has engaged in diplomacy with (allegedly) the Most Powerful Man in the World, and (at least , according to himself) the Best Deal-maker in the World. Kim scored significant victories on every point. Several issues that were allegedly critical were dropped in the final communique.

  • Holding the meeting was a major concession to Kim in the first place. His appearance as a international celebrity in Singapore and photos with the President of the United States, against a backdrop with the flags of both countries side-by-side, is a massive propaganda victory seen on every news bulletin in every country in the world.
  • Secretary of State Pompeo sought "verifable, irreversible and complete denuclearisation" of North Korea the day before the talks. The final communique dropped the three adjectives.
  • Denuclearisation was applied to "the Korean peninsula", committing the US to a quid pro quo, something that will worry the Japanese and South Koreans.
  • Analysts had recommended the US seek a "down payment" on denuclearisation to gain assurances of Kim's intentions, such as some missiles scrapped straightaway. We do not know if it was even suggested.
  • Outside the talks, Trump announced that the military exercises with South Korea would be discontinued. These exercises infuriated North Korea, and their ending is a major concession by Trump - again, apparently, without any reciprocation by Kim. It seems South Korea had not been told about this.
  • Human rights were never discussed, but Trump said he intended to invite the murderous tyrant Kim to the United States, and to the White House. Again, a concession with no reciprocation.
  • The President began by declaring how "honoured" he was to meet a blood-stained tyrant. This was excessively effusive and undignified for the leader of a country that respects the rule of law (doesn't it?).
  • Trump did state the sanctions regime would stay in place, but statements today by Chinese officials suggest that the Chinese will not now apply sanctions stringently. Russia probably never did. Kim' regime is safe, his nuclear weapons are in place, and he can continue laboratory testing.
  • Apparently, Trump made a big play about American investment in North Korea. This is delusional. China will never allow America to assume any major influence in North Korea. Kim will be sensible enough to integrate his economy more closely with China and Russia, who are neighbours, and whose authoritarian systems are just milder versions of his own.

Trump came straight to Singapore from a disastrous and acrimonious meeting with his closest allies. He pointedly did not want to meet them, and did not leave Quebec with their praise and encouragement. This Singapore meeting failed to revive any confidence that the President really knows how to conduct international diplomacy, or if his anti-diplomatic disruptiveness can bear fruit.

Let's look on the bright side - a year ago, these two sides were threatening war. No doubt, talks will continue, hopefully until at least Trump leaves office. It is entirely probable that North Korea will still have nuclear weapons at that time. Let us hope Trump never realises the extent of his folly - in may even be folly in a good cause, if it averts war.

What is it with you people? It is President Trump to you lot. Still not over the election of the man himself? Or perhaps it is that you have been dabbling a little too much in the black arts of the Guardian?
 


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