Northern Ireland: the ball and chain that binds the Brexit Bulldog



rainmaker

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All good points. They would just need to be handled discreetly though. We can't be trumpeting this from the rooftops.
Why? What is wrong about being open and straight with people, why the need to be sneaky about something?
 

rainmaker

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At least pregnant Britons will be able to travel to Belfast to give birth, ensuring their child can apply for an Irish passport.
I supposed it would make a change to all the the pregnant Irish women who are forced to travel the other way for terminations they would have the legal right to almost anywhere else in the western world...
 

Wascurito

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I disagree. We should be trumpeting it from the roof tops. The earlier this conversation takes place, the better for everyone in the future.
I can see a split amongst the Brexiteers on social media. Some are loud in the defence of the unionist position. Others show distinct signs of exasperation that the dreary steeples of thon Problematiic Province might frustrate their ambitions.

We don't want to be the cause of moving people from the latter group to the former group.
 

Wascurito

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Why? What is wrong about being open and straight with people, why the need to be sneaky about something?
The situation is polarized in NI already. Announcing that we were planning for a UI would make it worse. Anyway, with all due respect, the idea that not all matters of diplomacy and foreign affairs are for public consumption shouldn't need to be explained to a British person.

Why do you think the 30-year rule is in place?
 
D

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I can see a split amongst the Brexiteers on social media. Some are loud in the defence of the unionist position. Others show distinct signs of exasperation that the dreary steeples of thon Problematiic Province might frustrate their ambitions.

We don't want to be the cause of moving people from the latter group to the former group.
Well, tbh, in the event of a referendum their views are irrelevant, but I take your point. It's rather similar to the "SF should sit in Westminster to prevent brexit" argument.
 

Cai

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I supposed it would make a change to all the the pregnant Irish women who are forced to travel the other way for terminations they would have the legal right to almost anywhere else in the western world...
Terminations in Manchester & births in Belfast? That's probably a metaphor for something, but I can't quite work out what.
 

rainmaker

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The situation is polarized in NI already. Announcing that we were planning for a UI would make it worse. Anyway, with all due respect, the idea that not all matters of diplomacy and foreign affairs are for public consumption shouldn't need to be explained to a British person.

Why do you think the 30-year rule is in place?
I am not complaining about it, though am I brains. I simply pointing your personal preference for sneakiness.
 

former wesleyan

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Why do you disagree with Democracy?
You need to differentiate between an argument being put forward for discussion and the assumption that someone doing that necessarily agrees with it.
 

Wascurito

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Well, tbh, in the event of a referendum their views are irrelevant, but I take your point. It's rather similar to the "SF should sit in Westminster to prevent brexit" argument.
Mind you, I suppose there is something to be said for signalling to the NI CNR community and more neutrally minded folks who are not from that community that Dublin does have something in place that the Brexiteers signally lacked:

A plan. :cool:
 

Catalpast

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The only way out is that the island of Ireland is given Special Category Status by both the EU & the UK

SPECIAL CATEGORY STATUS NOW!

......................................................:cool:
 

Wascurito

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I am not complaining about it, though am I brains. I simply pointing your personal preference for sneakiness.
Choose whatever word you want. That's the way international diplomacy works.

If you have another preference for how the matter in question should be conducted, please feel free to share it.
 

Lord Talbot

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The situation is polarized in NI already. Announcing that we were planning for a UI would make it worse. Anyway, with all due respect, the idea that not all matters of diplomacy and foreign affairs are for public consumption shouldn't need to be explained to a British person.

Why do you think the 30-year rule is in place?
Until nationalists have a majority in Stormont, the South can do nothing.
 

rainmaker

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Choose whatever word you want. That's the way international diplomacy works.

If you have another preference for how the matter in question should be conducted, please feel free to share it.
I should point out that keeping something quiet and appointing a junior minister to prepare for that something are probably incompatible strategies - I mean you see the contradiction don't you?

It's the kind of ridiculous plan I would expect May to dream up.
 

Cai

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I should point out that keeping something quiet and appointing a junior minister to prepare for that something are probably incompatible strategies - I mean you see the contradiction don't you?

It's the kind of ridiculous plan I would expect May to dream up.
Depends who's appointed junior minister I suppose - I can think of a couple who'd guarantee complete invisibility.
 

tokkie

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Until nationalists have a majority in Stormont, the South can do nothing.
Not true. It's not the day of the big wind that you thatch the roof.

There's plenty the South can do, the first of which is preparing for various scenarios.
 

GDPR

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Not true. It's not the day of the big wind that you thatch the roof.

There's plenty the South can do, the first of which is preparing for various scenarios.
Exactly.

It has to be attractive for enough NI people to vote to reunify, and one major problem is that the south's healthcare system is inferior to the NHS
 
D

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Exactly.

It has to be attractive for enough NI people to vote to reunify, and one major problem is that the south's healthcare system is inferior to the NHS
This may help. (and I disagree that the health service is inferior, more costly yes, inferior, no)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-rights-to-irish-passport-holders-experts-say

People born in Northern Ireland who carry Irish passports could have more rights after Brexit than those who carry British passports, legal experts have claimed.

The Irish border deal struck between the EU and the UK last week will allow at least 500,000 out of the 1.8 million population of the region to continue to be treated as EU citizens even though they were born in the UK.

This group, technically foreign passport holders in a UK jurisdiction, will be treated as naturalised but will also have a suite of rights associated with being an EU citizen, including freedom of movement rights to travel, work and settle in another member state.

“The British in Northern Ireland who do not also opt for Irish citizenship would be worse off after Brexit,” said Dagmar Schiek, professor of law at Queen’s University Belfast.

Main points of agreement between UK and EU in Brexit deal

The agreement, which could prompt challenges among other EU citizens in the UK who have fewer rights, has its roots in the conflicts of Ireland’s past.

It effectively locks up and extends the provisions in the Good Friday agreement, which allows anyone born in the region a birthright to identify as Irish, British or both. They can carry either passport or both
 


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