Not a hope in hell

hammer

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absconded

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How can we really afford to carry on like this? - Irish, Business - Independent.ie

Good article.

No chance, we will be ridden for the next 10 years.

Wait till people realise they cant service their own debt requirements after paying higher taxes, levies, water rates & property taxes. Possible wage cuts and definite mortgage rate increases.

NO HOPE IN HELL
I don't believe that it can be paid either. Nor will more credit be forthcoming.
I saw a figure recently that our total debt is around 1,000 Billion personal debt included. The people (i.e. country) simply doesn't have the money.

So when this plan doesn't work and they don't manage to get blood from a stone... what next?

I'd predict that commerce in this country will collapse completely.

We are where we are! We've turned a corner etc etc

Thieves bailing out their banker/developer buddies rather than admit that FF could ever make a mistake:mad:.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Debt forgiveness and default.

The only option left.
Short, simple and to the point. And accurate.

Not unless we can increase income dramatically, but how can we increase productivity to avoid inflation?
 

hammer

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CS - good book to read about the spiral

"CHEAP - the real cost of living in a low price, low wage world"
David Bosshart

Wages fall, prices fall, wages fall further, prices fall further.......................etc
 

seanmacc

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If Europe went into a massive Zimbabwe style period of hyperinflation our sovereign and personal debt would shrink. We still have a chance of paying it off.
 

needle_too

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If Europe went into a massive Zimbabwe style period of hyperinflation our sovereign and personal debt would shrink. We still have a chance of paying it off.
If me aunty had balls, she'd be me uncle.....


Debt forgiveness and default.

The only option left.
...and whos going to pay the debts then?

You can forgive debt within the bounds of the state, what about overseas creditors?
Let em hang?
Well thats fine until your sick child cant be seen because the state cant borrow money to pay doctors. Whos hanging then?

The obvious and only option is a debt for equity swap.
You hand back 50% of your house to the bank and they reduce the payments by 50%.
When it comes time to sell, they get their 50% first.

Deal done, pressure off, no more profiting from property prices, cash back in the system at no cost to the taxpayers.

Simples.
 
Last edited:

hammer

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We are all having a panic attacked over €4,300 million cut backs for the next 4 years.

€17,000 million all told.
1.7m workers
By 2014 we will all be about €10,000 per annum worse off ( I know its a little simple but that is how I`m looking at it )

Now how do I increase my net income by €10,000 or cut my expenditure?
Or for two income families double this figure :(

Debt forgiveness needs to happen ASAP.
 

Aindriu

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Wait till people realise they cant service their own debt requirements after paying higher taxes, levies, water rates & property taxes. Possible wage cuts and definite mortgage rate increases.
Sadly, around 95% of the population will just bend over and take it. In the most part, we Irish are spineless, gutless people who allow authority (RCC, FF etc) to ride roughshod across us.

If more than 5% of the population take to the streets I will be very (but pleasantly) surprised.
 

hammer

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When I do the payroll for my firm and commissions are put through and people see the tax take 51% they are shocked. Some people are living in cloud cuckoo land.

The 95% do not understand the hardship that will ensue as public expenditure is brought back to €38 billion or so per annum.

The public sector are ostriches at the moment if they cant see further wage adjustments and real redundancy.

We need to cut total expenditure by circa 25%
 

seth lord

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The Irish financial situation is so bad and beyond repair that intervention by the IMF will not be enough. The Irish sovereign state and its institutions will have to be moth balled for about 20 years and a committee appointed by the EU will have to be sent in to run our affairs. There is no other way out. No other way. The deficit is too big, the cost of borrowing too high. We do not have the wherewithal or the political will to solve this; it will have to be done by outsiders. Ireland has failed and spectacularly so.
 

turdsl

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When I do the payroll for my firm and commissions are put through and people see the tax take 51% they are shocked. Some people are living in cloud cuckoo land.

The 95% do not understand the hardship that will ensue as public expenditure is brought back to €38 billion or so per annum.

The public sector are ostriches at the moment if they cant see further wage adjustments and real redundancy.

We need to cut total expenditure by circa 25%

I agree, the the public sector have too much money, they are the only ones who still can afford to go to the pubs, restaurants, get their hair done in expensive salons, they still hold on to 2 cars in the house, They are the only people with plenty of money in the shopping centre. I live near a hospital, there is a, Centra, shop across the road. every time I go in I am left waiting while the nurses get served, I used to go in several times a day myself. not now. I just stay out of it. The country is bust. It is just a question of learning how to save better. We were spoilt too much in the past, we had to get anything we fancied on shop windows. There will be no rise in pay for years. The best way to save is cut back spending,
 

TODevastated

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When I do the payroll for my firm and commissions are put through and people see the tax take 51% they are shocked. Some people are living in cloud cuckoo land.

The 95% do not understand the hardship that will ensue as public expenditure is brought back to €38 billion or so per annum.

The public sector are ostriches at the moment if they cant see further wage adjustments and real redundancy.

We need to cut total expenditure by circa 25%
many people get a wage slip, myself included, and with so many deductions, allowances, credits and thresholds find it all very confusuing and don't actually focus on the gap between gross and net pay they merely bin the payslip (if still lucky enough to be getting one)

there is method in the govts madness in having the sysytem so complex, if a psy slip merely said

Gross Pay
less Tax
less PRSI
less other deductions such as VHI
Net pay

it would focus peoples minds imo
 

hammer

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Hopefully in the budget there will be

Gross Pay
less tax
less universal levy
Net pay

The system at the moment is screwed up.
 

kerdasi amaq

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There's another way to kick the government in the pants; leave the country.
 

Aindriu

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There's another way to kick the government in the pants; leave the country.
That won't hurt the government, just those folk who don't wish to, or are unable to, leave the country.
 

absconded

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The Irish financial situation is so bad and beyond repair that intervention by the IMF will not be enough. The Irish sovereign state and its institutions will have to be moth balled for about 20 years and a committee appointed by the EU will have to be sent in to run our affairs. There is no other way out. No other way. The deficit is too big, the cost of borrowing too high. We do not have the wherewithal or the political will to solve this; it will have to be done by outsiders. Ireland has failed and spectacularly so.

Agreed.
 

jimbo99

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We are all having a panic attacked over €4,300 million cut backs for the next 4 years.

€17,000 million all told.
1.7m workers
By 2014 we will all be about €10,000 per annum worse off ( I know its a little simple but that is how I`m looking at it )

Now how do I increase my net income by €10,000 or cut my expenditure?
Or for two income families double this figure :(

.
The maths are very simple, any entrepreneur can understand them immediatly. The problem with these simple maths is that they have to be presented by a bunch of twisted legal minds who pay millions to spin merchants. Now we all know what happens when legal minds start twisting a simple story.
 

patslatt

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There is hope,the Christian virtue!

How can we really afford to carry on like this? - Irish, Business - Independent.ie

Good article.

No chance, we will be ridden for the next 10 years.

Wait till people realise they cant service their own debt requirements after paying higher taxes, levies, water rates & property taxes. Possible wage cuts and definite mortgage rate increases.

NO HOPE IN HELL
Hope is one of the three Christian virtues,faith and charity being the others as I dimly remember them.

The optimistic case for Ireland rests on front loading of austerity designed to restore the confidence of the bond markets,the government's financial lifeline.This should reduce the punitive interest rates on government debt and facilitate debt rollovers. Reduced interest rates alone,which conceivably could drop by several percentage points,could stimulate a strong ecomomic recovery.

The key question is,will the government stop dithering and take ruthless actions (like the courageous UK government) as follows?:
1)eliminate useless quangos (though not all;and not just reintegrate them as civil servants)
2)cut the pay of the cabinet and top and mid-level public sector workers to levels prevalent in small advanced EU countries like Sweden,Denmark and Finland in order to lead by example
3)apply pension indexing links to cost of living instead of pay increases in the job occupied formerly
4)require public sector workers to contribute the full actuarial contributions needed to fund pensions
5)tax childrens' allowances
6)replace the HSE dinosaur with a system like Holland's in which the money follows the patient (but some very high tech services need to be licenced as monopolies to limit costs)
7)tax redundancy payments (which in the case of ESB Networks are approaching half a million euro a year)
8)cut the public sector numbers by 25% (the bond market won't wait for slow attrition through retirements and resignations),including the Gardai where half the admin work could be done by civilians.
9)Restore university fees to prevent the inevitable deterioration in the quality of third level education (politicians won't fund it properly as they rate the quality of third level education low on their list election priorities)
10)sell off semi-states,while regulating those with privatised monopolies
 


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