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Nothing good about immigration.

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Immigration
A person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country:


What is good about Immigration, nothing in my view, nothing at all.

Racist
A person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.



Let’s get the obvious out of the way first, it is a view of some that those who oppose immigration are RACISTS, For the record I am not a Racist as I do not believe my race is superior to any other race. I also do not believe we should stop immigration, I am here to question this idea/belief that in some way immigration is a good thing.

So before you go pointing the finger please remember these points,




And if you are the type that fails to read and understand and just want to shout RACIST every time someone raises a point against your favorite feel good charity then I say this to you; Stop playing the Race card!



Now that we have got all that out of the way let’s get to the points of the thread.


We have three types of immigration;

Controlled Immigration
This is where the government sets the agenda and we only allow in those who we want or require

Uncontrolled Immigration
This is where we drop our borders and let in anyone and everyone with no restrictions.

Refugees

This is where we allow in a certain number of people who have refugee status or we have accepted their refugee status and allow them to remain.

Ireland operates between all three. We have restriction to those outside of the European Union but we have no restrictions to those within the European Union, likewise we also accept refugees from the UN and the EU as well as giving status to some who arrive here.


Myths

One of the myths about immigration is the benefits they bring to us; multiculturalism is one of the many myths flaunted around like some sort of feel good factor that we should all be proud off. But what is multi-culture?

Multi-culture

Relating to or containing several cultural or ethnic groups within a society.

Multi-culture simple put is the invasion of other cultures into the host culture, then in a bizarre sort of way hope that the melting pot mixes them all up and we end up with one harmonized new culture. Others believe it is the successful diversity of integrating other cultures in with the host culture and all living side by side in harmony.

The reality is; the host country has its own culture invaded and no longer becomes the culture of that country as many cultures now exist side by side or some bastardization mongrel culture is born that replaces the host culture.

There is no evidence anywhere that shows how diversity of cultures has been successfully implemented, it has resulted in Ghettos, radicalization and a deep division between communities. Furthermore, why should the host country be forced to change its culture? Surely one of the attractive points to the immigrant when arriving at the host country was the culture and society that country offered?

If I or you go on holiday we do it for many reasons, one of the reasons we don’t go on Holiday is to visit a country that is identical to the same place we are trying to get away from for two weeks.

People go on holiday for the culture of different countries, if people simply wanted to go on a sun holiday they would all go to the nearest hot country which in our case would be Portugal or Spain, but in reality we have thousands of Irish every year visiting all parts of the globe for a holiday, people want to experience a different culture to their own.

Cultural Heritage is important, we should embrace that and market it instead of trying to create a culture that is no longer representative of the historic values that made the host country into the attractive beacon it is today.

A few throw away arguments I have read elsewhere when it comes to diversity and multi-culture is how great it is to have a Chinese take away, or an Indian. This isn't cultural diversity, this is market economics, people offering a service that people want to purchase. Go to India or China, you will find that the food they eat is far different than the food we eat in the restaurants we have here. If people really want to experience India or China then the best way to experience those countries is to visit those countries, especially as they don’t force upon their citizens the idea of cultural diversity and continue to embrace and promote their own cultures.

Experienced, Skilled Workers

Another Myth about immigration is that they bring fantastic experience and highly skilled workers to our shores.

Yes, it is a case that some of those coming to Ireland and hugely experienced skilled people this is certainly not the case for all of those coming to Ireland to live.

It is also a sign of how dysfunctional our country is when we train Doctors, Nurses and other skilled people to do a job only to see these people leave the country and we end up replacing them with skilled replacements from around the world. What is wrong with our country where we can’t retain our own highly skilled people?

We are also stealing from these countries the same highly skilled people they train to do those jobs in their countries, are we really that greedy as a nation that we feel morally justified to steal a poorer countries Doctor or Nurse because they are cheap for us to employ? What do you think happens in those countries when they end up with a skills shortage and they can’t use their financial power to replace them with even cheaper workers?

If we as a country train up our own skilled people to do a job then we should be willing to pay these people a fair wage to do that job, then we would not have to rob skilled workers from other countries which would allow them to remain and better the lives of everyone in their own countries.

Historical Reasons

Another argument those who champion immigration always make is how Ireland in the past flocked around the world as immigrants and went to live and work in other countries.

Is this a good thing? Is it a good thing that the people of the country felt that had no other choice but to leave the land of their fathers and head elsewhere to find food, work and a home? It is a failure of this country that we lost so many of our own people to these huge migration of Irish people. To use this as some kind of logical reasoning that because Irish people went to live elsewhere we should do the same and let in those who want to come here is deeply flawed.

The majority of Irish people left Ireland to go live in America, at the time the world was a very different place and society was harsher and less caring.

Those Irish who left and went to America, Canada etc. mostly did at the invitation of the host country. American was a new country with a fast growing economy, it needed low skilled labour and it certainly did not offer any social benefits.

Thousands of Irish people helped to shape and build the country in deeply harsh conditions. Many died in construction simply because the health and safety standards of the day were none existent.
Like cannon fodder the people coming to the new world were used in much the same way. The very last thing they were offered was housing, welfare payments, and social supports.

If we were to take away all the social supports that are offered to those in employment or those who are sat on the dole, how many immigrants would really want to come to Ireland to live?

REALITY

The reality of immigration is much starker, I have already explained how it destroys the cultural heritage of a country if the numbers coming in are sufficient enough, more so if the policies of the host government is that to force diversity and culture.

But for many the reality is far worse and the benefits of immigration are none existent.


Employment

The effects on employment because of immigration are huge. The vast number of people of employment age in Ireland are low skilled workers. Those coming into Ireland to work are mostly low skilled also, if a country only has a finite number of positions available then it is obvious that you can only offer so many jobs to the people wanting work.

The myth of employment is that the employer will always choose the best worker, of course this is flawed logic, Yes the employer will choose the best worker but not based on skills or experience but more based on what is best for the employer.

A retailer in Ireland used to employ management staff on a salary of €28,000 per year, the job cane with many perks such as Sunday Premium wages, meal vouchers, staff uniform allowance, and a Christmas bonus. All of these benefits were won by unions over a number of years to provide a better employment contract for the staff member but to offer a good quality of staff to the employer and customer. When the new Eastern European countries joined the EU and gained access to the Irish employment markets this same employer changed all new management contracts.

The same job now started on a salary of €21,000, it now offered no Sunday premium, no uniform allowance, no meal vouchers and no Christmas Bonus. The existing management staff were denied any further Sunday work as the new management had to work 5 out of 7 days which included Sunday`s as a normal working day. The Existing management also had open contracts and ended up being sent to stores well away from their place of residence making it virtually impossible for them to carry on working for that employer.

The above is a true example of how employers in Ireland are using immigrants for their own advantage, have you never questioned why the supermarkets you shop in have replaced Irish staff with a large number of foreign staff? Did the Irish staff become useless overnight or did the employer see an opportunity to reduce their costs?

The lack of employment opportunities for the host country has far worse implications, it increases the burden on social welfare, it reduces the tax take, it makes government raise taxes elsewhere.

Housing


With more people coming into the country a strain is put on housing, unless the government adopts a policy of building more housing stock and relaxing the laws of house building you will see a huge rise in rental prices as landlords are met by a huge increase in supply and demand. This is further damaging to the host population as they will find their rents overnight are increased as scrupulous landlords realise they can charge much more for their properties.

Those on social housing lists awaiting a council property will now face more competition for housing stock, the numbers simply increase which mean a reduced chance of you ever receiving a home.

Education

The increases on Education are equally damaging.

Unless the government are prepared to increase the education budgets and build more schools then the increases created through immigration will have to be incorporated into the existing school system.

Overnight Class sizes are increased and resources are strained.

The school could be faced with many children unable to speak English, this then leads to the school having to spend resources on providing extra supports to these children who cannot understand what is being taught, the extra resource spend is taken from existing budgets. If the existing budgets are being diverted to support children of immigrants then it is the Irish child who loses out, these children who would normally gain full advantage from extra supports are now left out because the school has to focus elsewhere.

Health

Similar to Education the health system is built on providing health care to a certain projected number of patients, unless the government are prepared to spend far more sums of money of patient needs and building more hospitals then the strain is felt.

If a hospital can only perform so many operations per years due to budget restraints what happens when the population is increased but the budgets are not?

The hospital prioritizes, this means many Irish people are not receiving the treatment they otherwise would have had because the hospital has had to prioritize what is important.

Summary

Its painfully clear there are little advantages if any to immigration to a host country, Because of current government planning we do need certain skilled immigrants to fill the shortages left, but this should only be a temporary measure, we should be looking to build a society where someone who wants to be a Doctor or Nurse and trains to do so does not have to leave to find employment elsewhere.

There is not benefit to uncontrolled immigration, we are damaging our society to pretend there is, and above all we need to end this madness called multiculturalism and diversity. We need to remember what is great about our cultural heritage and enshrine that into our Constitution and not change it for anyone.



The above thread was posted by Da Vinci over on Political Irish, I have full rights to republish.
http://******************/threads/nothing-good-about-immigration.1943/
 


mac tíre

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This thread will have about 70 Squillion posts in around 3 hours.
 

pinemartin

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I believe that to say there is nothing good about immigration is incorrect. i would think that there are many good things about immigration and also some bad.
 

silverharp

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open borders is madness, the free movement of Europeans around Europe is positive. Cherry picking from the rest of the world is also positive. The near free movement of unskilled people from the third world is a kind of class warfare that the Left should have sniffed out but instead chased their tails with identity politics.
 
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open borders is madness, the free movement of Europeans around Europe is positive. Cherry picking from the rest of the world is also positive. The near free movement of unskilled people from the third world is a kind of class warfare that the Left should have sniffed out but instead chased their tails with identity politics.
Nothing positive about EU Free Movement either, millions of poor Eastern Europeans coming to the west abandoning their qualifications because a low paid job here pays more than a high skilled job there.
 

drummed

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I believe that to say there is nothing good about immigration is incorrect. i would think that there are many good things about immigration and also some bad.

Indeed. To suggest we cannot as humans move to other places, experience other cultures and grasp the fact that there is life elsewhere is a serious error. People move for all sorts of complex reasons all the time.

But I presume the OP wants to restrict himself to the current refugee situation which would be a pity as that is not the complete picture of human migration.
 
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Indeed. To suggest we cannot as humans move to other places, experience other cultures and grasp the fact that there is life elsewhere is a serious error. People move for all sorts of complex reasons all the time.

But I presume the OP wants to restrict himself to the current refugee situation which would be a pity as that is not the complete picture of human migration.
Nothing wrong with migration at all, however what we have at the moment within the EU is a system that is only designed to attract people for wages.

If the average wage was consistent across the EU we would not have half the numbers of foreign EU nationals here as we do.
 

olli rehn

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Good to see you chickened out of the thread here just as you did over there. Hard to argue against the true eh?
I had a long look at it- and knew what would wait for me if I say something. That page is firmly in fascist hands, even the moderators fly their colours. I decided to keep quite. If nobody objects, the thread quickly vanishes. One way of dealing with it...
 
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I had a long look at it- and knew what would wait for me if I say something. That page is firmly in fascist hands, even the moderators fly their colours. I decided to keep quite. If nobody objects, the thread quickly vanishes. One way of dealing with it...

So now you can see the posts of the Lefty P.ie care to pull the post apart?
 

Truth.ie

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A little is healthy.
Too much is unhealthy.

People vote with their feet, even if they claim to be right on and "anti-racist". Very few people with money buy property in multi-cultural areas and almost always prefer homogenous communities.
Same in the UK, US or anywhere in the World.
 

drummed

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Nothing wrong with migration at all, however what we have at the moment within the EU is a system that is only designed to attract people for wages.

If the average wage was consistent across the EU we would not have half the numbers of foreign EU nationals here as we do.
In essence then you wish to shrink the present population of Ireland by a significant amount if we follow this logic.

Ignoring the future for a moment, I find the concept of shrinking the population (as in your ideal world, correct me if i'm wrong here, all EU nationals and others would leave) bizarre to be honest. If shrinking the national population is the best course of action why is no country doing it already?

Virtually every country is trying to at least maintain or increase its population for all sorts of reasons.
 

olli rehn

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So now you can see the posts of the Lefty P.ie care to pull the post apart?
I can clearly see a pattern of behaviour by mods on politicalirish. They back every rightwing loon and let them get away with murder. They look away if somebody is abused. But come running if somebody defends himself and hand out warnings. The page has become a club of fascists and their socks.... a lot of inbreeding. Activity is very much limited to them. If they are gone, the page is idle for hours.
There are some notable exceptions, though.
 

madmullah

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As an immigrant , only controlled immigration should be allowed, Illegal immigrants, bogus asylum seekers send them home and if they have no papers, because they destroyed them , just interrogate until their origins are determined and then send them home
 
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I can clearly see a pattern of behaviour by mods on politicalirish. They back every rightwing loon and let them get away with murder. They look away if somebody is abused. But come running if somebody defends himself and hand out warnings. The page has become a club of fascists and their socks.... a lot of inbreeding. Activity is very much limited to them. If they are gone, the page is idle for hours.
There are some notable exceptions, though.
Eh Olli, this isnt Political Irish, the post is now on P.ie, care to comment or not, or are you ignoring the points again?
 
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In essence then you wish to shrink the present population of Ireland by a significant amount if we follow this logic.

Ignoring the future for a moment, I find the concept of shrinking the population (as in your ideal world, correct me if i'm wrong here, all EU nationals and others would leave) bizarre to be honest. If shrinking the national population is the best course of action why is no country doing it already?

Virtually every country is trying to at least maintain or increase its population for all sorts of reasons.
Nobody said anything about shrinking, care to actually comment on the OP?
 
Last edited:

LeopoldLanthanum

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It's good for sociopathic bottom-feeder population they can be part of real-life "beauty and the beast" drama, get a lot of attention, good chance make their offsprings life miserable too.
 

Bill

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I can clearly see a pattern of behaviour by mods on politicalirish. They back every rightwing loon and let them get away with murder. They look away if somebody is abused. But come running if somebody defends himself and hand out warnings. The page has become a club of fascists and their socks.... a lot of inbreeding. Activity is very much limited to them. If they are gone, the page is idle for hours.
There are some notable exceptions, though.
there was my slayer thread, which was a work of brilliance
 

olli rehn

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Eh Olli, this isnt Political Irish, the post is now on P.ie, care to comment or not, or are you ignoring the points again?
Very hot here....
But because it is you....somebody who paid his water bill...:
I think immigration is necessary and will not go away. I like the free movement in the EU- I benefited myself from it in the past.
However I think the traffic into the EU needs urgent attention. It went out of control. Nothing wrong with people coming in. But the way it is (not) handled is grotesque, unbelievable, bizarre and unprecedented !
 

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