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Notre Dame Cathedral on fire


firefly123

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If it walks like duck.. There have been 800 church burnings in France since 2015. The last one last week in St Denis, where Charlemagne is buried - but the postman wont deliver any more as its soo diverse.
I wonder what Charlemagne's Grand - Da would make of all of it.
The fire was still going and they said it was due to building works. Seriously people.
Does it occur to you they could say it was due to building works so quickly because it happened where the builders were at the time and maybe they called the fire brigade as they hightailed it off the roof when the initially small fire got away on them?

This is how almost all fires happen.
 

petaljam

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The first thought in everyone head was Muslims.
Speak for yourself, my first thought was the renovation work. Crazy, I know. :whistle:

Until there is strong evidence to suggest otherwise that's where my money is going.
Completely sensible and not at all pathetic assumption. After all, an historic building undergoing renovation works has never before gone up in flames. :rolleyes:

The Primark building, The Cutty Sark (twice?) the Edinburgh school of Art (twice) and there are plenty of others.
But yeah, it's more likely to be Muslims. Sure.


Where is Anne Hidalgo, Paris's Socialist mayor in this crisis?
What are the chances of you questioning your own attitudes given your unseemly haste to score political points here? Anne Hidalgo was one of the first public figures to arrive at the scene, and the Town Hall has announced that it has already made €50 000 available for the work that will be needed.

If you had any decency you'd be ashamed of yourself. If you had any guts you'd come back on here and say so.

CNN saying fire brigade still not there.
They took a long time to get there. If you know anything about Paris, it's not hard to know why, but one clue for people who don't, is to just look at the time of day it happened and to guess what the traffic jn the historic centre of Paris is like then, and then add in the fact that Notre Dame is on an island in the middle of the Seine.

Why arent they droping water from helicopters as we did in an Irish forest fire a while back?
Thats been answered.
 

roc_

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In that article it states that these attacks are carried out by 'anarchist, feminist and islamist' elements. Then it proceeds to mention only islamist attacks. Am I therefore to conclude that it was anarchist-feminist cadres that made a point in Notre-Dame? Highly likely, I grant you. But let us continue with our blessed sleep.
You need to hold off in your judgements.

For one the radical left in France is much more of a force than we’re used to. (As my article above highlights)


But there could be any number of explanations. Jumping to blaming Muslims at this point has potential to further exacerbate the uninformed prejudice their broader community is trying to deal with. I’m telling you just don’t do it. You know nothing, stop pretending you do.
 

willow68

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You need to hold off in your judgements.

For one the radical left in France is much more of a force than we’re used to. (As my article above highlights)


But there could be any number of explanations. Jumping to blaming Muslims at this point has potential to further exacerbate the uninformed prejudice their broader community is trying to deal with. I’m telling you just don’t do it. You know nothing, stop pretending you do.
Fair comment.
 

Emily Davison

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Does it occur to you they could say it was due to building works so quickly because it happened where the builders were at the time and maybe they called the fire brigade as they hightailed it off the roof when the initially small fire got away on them?

This is how almost all fires happen.
Now Firefly we can't be having logical facts from a fireman like you when we can blame the muslims can we.

I suspect you're bang on the money about a blow torch starting this. Makes sense. Happily it looks like the firefighters did trojan work and this magnificent building will be renovated. With the Parisiens and French nation united now to get the money togeter to rebuild it maybe this fire will have turned out to be part of it's history like Petaljam (or someone else) mentioned and that it can be a unifying symbol as they rebuild it.

As it happens I visited it with my children about a year and a half ago. Can't remember now if they were whinging about me dragging them into another historical building but they were delighted to know they'd visited it now.
 

Emily Davison

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You're beyond parody at this point.
You're like a troll only shìtter.

An idiots idiot.
And they're also so disappointed that they can't blame the fire on the Muslims/Jews/Lefties. Just an accidental fire and let's start the insane conspiracy theories. Where' is Gemma O' Doherty. I really really want to hear her views on this. Maybe False Flag. Though she used that for New Zealand, so what on earth could she use for this. That the ghost of the hunchback knocked over a candle and started the fire. It's as good a crazy theory as any I suppose. And of course he didn't hear the candle falling over.
 

Lagertha

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Leftist haters of Western culture, values and traditions have a spring in their step this morning.

These self-loathing lefties would like to see Notre Dame demolished, because it represents everything they despise. They would prefer to see a Saudi mosque on the site.
Maybe, but this tragedy has led to a massive show of solidarity, sympathy and support from various religions around the world which is a very positive thing.
 

petaljam

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The Paris firebrigade have done an amazing job in preserving the superstructure and the facade onto the "Parvis".

Last night it seemed very possible that the whole thing would collapse. It's absolutely thanks to the work of the fire brigades and the risks they took with their own lives that that didn't happen.



17586
 

IvoShandor

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That's true but these buildings are not static in time either. For instance, the spire, which everyone was so shocked to see fall this evening, was a much later addition which many people at the time hated.
There's almost nothing in the edifice that was there when it was first built. Is there really a qualitative difference in the work that will (hopefully) be done in the next whatever years and the fact of replacing it bit by bit over two or three centuries as and when bits fall off it?
Agreed. Many of these great buildings are conglomerations, accretions of components and materials that have been accumulated, replaced, repaired and supplemented over the centuries. In the course of time nobody but experts perceive or understand what is new, what is old, what is replaced or original as the mends become invisible and the new takes on the patina of the old. Rather like the replacement of the cells in a coral reef....or even ourselves, in fact (to a degree, anyway). In a hundred years time how many will remember the story of the Frauenkirche in Dresden?
 
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Lagertha

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I really wouldn't want to speculate on the cause of the fire, hopefully it was just an accident. The possibility of arson isn't something to throw around lightly, the last thing Paris or France needs is a bloodbath of retaliation which is exactly what would happen if it were. The building is hugely important for so many people around the world and at least the solidarity of various religions around the world is a positive thing. It seems that quite a lot of things inside have been saved too which is great.
 

Lagertha

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Many of the victims of Jihadism were the great Islamic buildings of the past. The people of Aleppo mourn their great mosque, just as the Parisians do Notre Dame.
Funny that, ISIS went on a spree destroying many ancient things that were offensive to their God. Seems that Allah is pretty much offended by everything. Never trust a person who doesn't like dogs.
 

IvoShandor

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The first thought in everyone head was Muslims. Until there is strong evidence to suggest otherwise that's where my money is going.
There's a long history of people jumping to conclusions after terrible fires. Some people said Catholics were responsible for the Great Fire of London. The fire in Rome during the reign of Nero was blamed on Christians. The Reichstag fire was blamed on the Communists. We're still at it, it appears.
 
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cozzy121

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And they're also so disappointed that they can't blame the fire on the Muslims/Jews/Lefties. Just an accidental fire and let's start the insane conspiracy theories. Where' is Gemma O' Doherty. I really really want to hear her views on this. Maybe False Flag. Though she used that for New Zealand, so what on earth could she use for this. That the ghost of the hunchback knocked over a candle and started the fire. It's as good a crazy theory as any I suppose. And of course he didn't hear the candle falling over.
Here she is!

Gemma O’Doherty @gemmaod1
This is devastating. One of the most iconic symbols of Europe in flames tonight. How many Catholic churches will have to burn before the people of our continent stand up? You are watching the end of our civilisation. Those who continue to stay silent are complicit. #NotreDame
 

petaljam

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There's a long history of people jumping to conclusions after terrible fires. Some people said catholics were responsible for the Great Fire of London. We're still at it, it appears.
And so unfair to blame Catholics, who as we all know have always been totally peaceful. It's not like they had ever tried to blow up parliament or anything. Not at all like Muslims, eh?


And I see the far right in France are trying their best to exploit this too, Dupont-Aignan (who's on the limit between the parliamentary right the National Front, having concluded an accord with Marine Le Pen before the presidential elections) has just been interviewed and he managed to sneak in a suggestion that it might have been an attk. Of course.
 

owedtojoy

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QUOTE="IvoShandor, post: 12641339, member: 18235"]
There's a long history of people jumping to conclusions after terrible fires. Some people said catholics were responsible for the Great Fire of London. We're still at it, it appears.

And so unfair to blame Catholics, who as we all know have always been totally peaceful. It's not like they had ever tried to blow up parliament or anything. Not at all like Muslims, eh?
Apparently, the building was locked and empty when the fire started.

Of course, that only proves it must be sabotage, and not one of the dozen other explanations like an electrical fire.

On another note, The Smartest Man In The World, President Donald "Lardarse" Trump suggested dropping tons of water on the building from fire-fighting tanker aeroplanes used in forest fires. Tons of water from a height would probably have levelled the walls as well. Smart boy, Lardarse, you never lost it. :rolleyes:


Exploiting grief to engage in moral preening - Lawyers, Guns & Money
 

petaljam

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Apparently, the building was locked and empty when the fire started.

Of course, that only proves it must be sabotage, and not one of the dozen other explanations like an electrical fire.

On another note, The Smartest Man In The World, President Donald "Lardarse" Trump suggested dropping tons of water on the building from fire-fighting tanker aeroplanes used in forest fires. Tons of water from a height would probably have levelled the walls as well. Smart boy, Lardarse, you never lost it. :rolleyes:


Exploiting grief to engage in moral preening - Lawyers, Guns & Money
They're saying this morning that the water used to put out the fire is as much of a danger to the structure as the fire was and that the damage that will have caused will need to be evaluated and treated separately from the fire damage.

So yeah, dumping more water from a height would totally have been the right thing to do. Idiots.
 

Pyewacket

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What bellends. Buildings catch fire during restoration work. Old timber buildings often catch fire for reasons we are not even sure of, because they undergo chemical changes and alterations in forces within the framework over centuries. Any structural engineer can tell you that.

What I resent is that when I look back on this awful event, it will always be tied in my mind to knob-ends on social media wibbling about Muslims as their very first reaction.

So like any normal decent person, it's log off and leave them to get on with it.
 

petaljam

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Another symbol of the white privilege goes up in flames.

Lefties very, very satisfied this morning.
You must be devastated that not a single "leftie" has said any such thing, and even more devastated that the "leftie" mayor of Paris was quicker to announce a significant - and bigger - initial budget is being made available to start repairs than the more right wing President of the Paris/Ile de France region.

So devastated that you've had to make up the comments yourself.
 

Clanrickard

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You must be devastated that not a single "leftie" has said any such thing, and even more devastated that the "leftie" mayor of Paris was quicker to announce a significant - and bigger - initial budget is being made available to start repairs than the more right wing President of the Paris/Ile de France region.

So devastated that you've had to make up the comments yourself.
After every major event there are people, generally few in number, that say outrageous things for attention or because they are nuts. It is generally a small minority and is not representative of anything. You'll find half wits on socials media celebrating this if you look hard enough.
 
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