Now That Austerity Has Failed, Where Lies The Fiscal Treaty?

shiel

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The disaster in the Irish economy was caused by government spending running way ahead of sustainable government tax revenue.

Caused by both massive increases in spending and stupid reductions in income taxes.

The banks, bankers and developers are an easy scapegoat but they didn't cause us to spend more than we take in tax.
They may have caused massive losses that were lumped on our shoulders, but then again it was our government that decided that this madness was a sensible policy.
Absolutely. I included the lords and masters in political, financial, building and those around the various negotiating tables.

All of them are now complaining about the results of their own complicity in what happened.

During the Celtic tiger they were telling the rest of us peasants who had the temerity to raise objections to mind our manners and shut up. Suicide might also have been hinted at.

I want to throw up when I hear these people pontificating now on what should be done.
 


Mad as Fish

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Austerity? what austerity?
The austerity that has seen my income drop by 75% over the last few years, and no, I wasn't an auctioneer or builder of any sort.
 

Clanrickard

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Aindriu

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Mad as Fish

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Sorry but not everyone went "mad with greed". The celtic tiger never entered many peoples houses.
Those that claim everyone went mad are simply fulfilling a base need to share their guilt by pretending that they were just following the orders of the herd, it's the only way they can live with themselves.
 

IbrahaimMohamad

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This is the usual ************************e.

A small number of our lords and masters bankrupt this country.

They were cheer led in that by most of the media.

Austerity is the result.

Those who caused the disaster and those who cheer led it are are all over the place now complaining about the results.

The morons on here who said nothing during the Celtic tiger are also all over the place orchestrating chaos.

It is mixture of malevolence and hypocrisy that is nauseating.

But it typifies our media and this forum.
Most of the National Debt has been incurred propping up welfare and public sector pay.
 

Mad as Fish

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Was it caused by the austerity or by the unwinding of the property and consumer spending bubbles?
Both. The bubble could never last but the austerity has removed all casual spending from the domestic economy and made many small businesses unviable, thus stifling any hope of recovery.
 

Taxi Driver

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Sorry but not everyone went "mad with greed". The celtic tiger never entered many peoples houses.
Any of the following were based on the 2002-2008 Celtic Tiger
- increases in public sector employment/pay
- increases in social welfare/child benefit
- increases in social insurance/state pension
- reductions in income taxation

The vast majority of people didn't go "mad with greed" but the vast majority of people did benefit from the largess that the bubble temporarily afforded.
 
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Taxi Driver

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Both. The bubble could never last but the austerity has removed all casual spending from the domestic economy and made many small businesses unviable, thus stifling any hope of recovery.
What do you mean by "casual spending"? Consumption expenditure by households is still close to €80 billion. That is a lot of spending. It was €90 billion in 2008 and fell to €80 billion in 2009 (a 12% drop) and has stayed pretty close to that since then.
 

shiel

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The Irish media during the Celtic tiger years was pathetic.

The serried ranks of both the print and broadcast media spent many years posterior licking the great and the good and the powerful and covering every available screen and page with flattering images of their visages.

Interviews with powerful people were a revolting exercises in fore lock tugging. This democratic republic was transformed into a virtual dictatorship by most of its journalists taking the soup and arse-licking those whom they should have been holding to account on our behalf.

Reading the threads on this forum back then is embarassing.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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Asked by greek panel moderator Matina Stevis in Brussels on 22 April 2013.

Matina Stevis (moderator): The role of the institutions of the Commission within the context of this crisis can surely not just be to provide intellectual leadership or aspiration. Surely it must be to be relevant to the citizens in Athens and Lisbon or in Nicosia and to be strong. I've heard you and others describe the Commission as the guardian of the Treaty. It means nothing to an Athenian that you are the guardian of the Treaty. The Treaty means nothing. You are to be the guardian of that citizen, of your compatriot in Lisbon. So, it is the moment for the European institutions to decide whether they will be strong and relevant or weak and irrelevant. That is an existential moment for you, Sir, as well as for the Union itself.

José Manuel Barroso: So while this {austerity} policy is fundamentally right, I think it has reached its limits in many aspects, because a policy to be successful not only has to be properly designed. It has to have the minimum of political and social support.
I don't think this amounts to a full renunciation of the EU austerity policies by Barroso. The greek moderator Matina Stevis also seems to be a bit of a nutter as well ...
 
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shiel

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Any of the following were based on the 2002-2008 Celtic Tiger
- increases in public sector employment/pay
- increases in social welfare/child benefit
- increases in social insurance/state pension
- reductions in income taxation

The vast majority of people didn't go "made with greed" but the vast majority of people did benefit from the largess that the bubble temporarily afforded.
But the decisions which made all that happen, which borrowed large amounts of money and which cheer led it in the media were made by a small number of powerful people around a small number of tables.

Those same people are now all over the media complaining about the consequences of their own decisions under the mantra 'austerity'.
 

Mad as Fish

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What do you mean by "casual spending"? Consumption expenditure by households is still close to €80 billion. That is a lot of spending. It was €90 billion in 2008 and fell to €80 billion in 2009 (a 12% drop) and has stayed pretty close to that since then.
I'm afraid that post does nothing but display a rather dangerous detachment from reality.

I was going to reply with a heavy dose of sarcasm but to be honest I think that would be unkind as you obviously have some sort of problem relating to the reality of what is happening outside of which ever institution you inhabit or represent.

Need one really point out that prices have risen significantly over the last four years? I posted yesterday that our grocery bill has risen dramatically over the last 12 months, I just couldn't believe the figures but as yet have not had time to examine them for factors which may distort the picture. I was talking to a friend last night who runs his own business and really can't decided whether it is worth doing so, certainly when you consider the hours he works it isn't and I hear these tales from all around. Over the last year especially consumer spending on anything other than essentials has fallen off a cliff, I have good reason to know and the knowledge is reinforced as I see all the small business around this place slowly die off.

Seriously, you need to get out more.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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But the decisions which made all that happen, which borrowed large amounts of money and which cheer led it in the media were made by a small number of powerful people around a small number of tables.

Those same people are now all over the media complaining about the consequences of their own decisions under the mantra 'austerity'.
we are reaching the end of the warm shower of cash from Germany. There is no need to play nice anymore. Once Ireland has received the last troika installment defaulting is a real option to forgo most of the repayments.
 

Lempo

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we are reaching the end of the warm shower of cash from Germany. There is no need to play nice anymore. Once Ireland has received the last troika installment defaulting is a real option to forgo most of the repayments.
The creditor nation taxpayers saw this coming around the first bailouts.
 


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