Now That Austerity Has Failed, Where Lies The Fiscal Treaty?

Taxi Driver

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I'm afraid that post does nothing but display a rather dangerous detachment from reality.

I was going to reply with a heavy dose of sarcasm but to be honest I think that would be unkind as you obviously have some sort of problem relating to the reality of what is happening outside of which ever institution you inhabit or represent.

Need one really point out that prices have risen significantly over the last four years? I posted yesterday that our grocery bill has risen dramatically over the last 12 months, I just couldn't believe the figures but as yet have not had time to examine them for factors which may distort the picture. I was talking to a friend last night who runs his own business and really can't decided whether it is worth doing so, certainly when you consider the hours he works it isn't and I hear these tales from all around. Over the last year especially consumer spending on anything other than essentials has fallen off a cliff, I have good reason to know and the knowledge is reinforced as I see all the small business around this place slowly die off.

Seriously, you need to get out more.
No it shows that not all sectors are impacted the same. Some sectors are negatively affected in a disproportionate degree to the overall decline. Some sectors gain in a downturn. You may say that "over the last year especially consumer spending on anything other than essentials has fallen off a cliff" but you have nothing more than anecdote to support it. Why doesn't the evidence reflect this? Why is it not seen in retail sales figures, which are poor but not falling? Why isn't it reflected in VAT and Excise Duty receipts which are relatively stable?
 


Spanner Island

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The problem is there is no plan B...

The global financial abortion is simply a massive charade in which we all participate every day...

Fiat money is bullsh!t... it may as well be Monopoly money...

And what's the alternative to austerity anyway?

QE - let's print money to beat the band and fool ourselves into thinking it's some sort of cure... It worked for a while in the US and elsewhere but now it's pretty useless, is solving nothing and has become a habit more than anything else...

Borrow more to stimulate... brilliant... let's impoverish ourselves and future generations even more than we already are... Then again I guess we could indulge in it for a while... Why not? But it too will fail miserably...


The truth is there is no cure for the mess we're in...

And that's what no Government or expert or elite tosser will ever admit...
 

Mad as Fish

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No it shows that not all sectors are impacted the same. Some sectors are negatively affected in a disproportionate degree to the overall decline. Some sectors gain in a downturn. You may say that "over the last year especially consumer spending on anything other than essentials has fallen off a cliff" but you have nothing more than anecdote to support it. Why doesn't the evidence reflect this? Why is it not seen in retail sales figures, which are poor but not falling? Why isn't it reflected in VAT and Excise Duty receipts which are relatively stable?
No, honestly TD, you are on another planet mate. I have plenty of evidence but am not going to go public on a forum so you just stick to your tables and graphs, the ones that show unemployment at less than 15%, and I'll just go by what I see. You'll be happy and I'll be wondering just what the feck is really going on because the answer does not lie anywhere near what your precious figures suggest and nobody I talk to believes it does either.
 
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gombeennation

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The Irish media during the Celtic tiger years was pathetic.

The serried ranks of both the print and broadcast media spent many years posterior licking the great and the good and the powerful and covering every available screen and page with flattering images of their visages.

Interviews with powerful people were a revolting exercises in fore lock tugging. This democratic republic was transformed into a virtual dictatorship by most of its journalists taking the soup and arse-licking those whom they should have been holding to account on our behalf.
Could not agree more.
You would need to be a fkwit of unimaginable proportion to even read/watch the mainstreammedia over the last decade - let alone believe any of it.

Especially when there were other avenues of information to explore - like the internet for instance.

If people are that stupid , and are willing to believe the likes of the sindo and rte - surely they almost deserve what they get?
 

H.R. Haldeman

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No to austerity because I want to continue paying €60 for a 5 minute GP visit!

No to austerity because I want to continue paying the most expensive rent in Western Europe!

No to austerity because it's reasonable that bankrupt Ireland has the 2nd highest minimum wage in Europe!

No to austerity because it's totally fine that the Tipperary County Librarian earns more than the PM of Spain!

No to austerity because rising house prices are great for our competitiveness!

No to austerity because building 90,000 houses a year is perfectly normal!

No to austerity because 2006 was just great!


To the barricades comrades!
 

shiel

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Could not agree more.
You would need to be a fkwit of unimaginable proportion to even read/watch the mainstreammedia over the last decade - let alone believe any of it.

Especially when there were other avenues of information to explore - like the internet for instance.

If people are that stupid , and are willing to believe the likes of the sindo and rte - surely they almost deserve what they get?
I think we are having this discussion on two threads. I am getting confused. but the following is as relevant here as it was on the other thread.

You underestimate the influence which the power to control the media gives.

North Korea and Nazi Germany are extreme cases but they illustrate the point.

We should not stick our heads in the sand and say it has nothing to do with me.

The arrogance of a small number of people in control of the media during the Celtic tiger and their support for similar small number of arrogant people in control of our political and financial institutions bankrupt this country.

That fact should not be ignored.

But claiming that the internet is any better than MSM is foolish.

The fact that a thread which I started on this subject was binned and I 'have been removed' from starting any other discussion by the people in charge of this forum tells us that abuse of power in the media even on the internet has not gone away you know.

All we can do is keep challenging it.

We should not, as you are advocating, bow the head, get into the tent with them and say yes sir.
 

beazlebottom

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Not only did we not get change we got bare faced lies. Leo "not one more red cent for the banks" Varadkar, Pat "thats you do during elections" Rabbitte are only two examples of the reason politicans are about as well regarded as the local pedo these days.
I think you are giving Irish politicians an elevated status they do not deserve.
 

Lain2016

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As long as Merkel is in power the kleptocracy across Europe is in safe hands.
I see Noonan has ok'd a rise to €843,000 for one of his bankster friends.

Gavin Titley made the point on TVB that this is perfect case of class solidarity in action, the golden circle...they havent gone away you know :mad:
 

Taxi Driver

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Austerity is working!

The purpose of austerity is to close the gap between revenue and expenditure on government services, known as the primary deficit.

On these grounds austerity is working. In 2009, the primary deficit was more than €15bn. This year it will be €4bn.

This improvement is what that austerity was designed to do and it has done so. The remaining €4bn primary deficit also highlights that austerity in Ireland is not over.

Seamus Coffey: Ireland is not in a position to move to zero austerity - Independent.ie
 

CarnivalOfAction

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No to austerity because I want to continue paying €60 for a 5 minute GP visit!

No to austerity because I want to continue paying the most expensive rent in Western Europe!

No to austerity because it's reasonable that bankrupt Ireland has the 2nd highest minimum wage in Europe!

No to austerity because it's totally fine that the Tipperary County Librarian earns more than the PM of Spain!

No to austerity because rising house prices are great for our competitiveness!

No to austerity because building 90,000 houses a year is perfectly normal!

No to austerity because 2006 was just great!


To the barricades comrades!
No to FF/FG/LP banksterity coz it addresses none of the above but FFleeces hard working, low-income ppl to further enrich their wealthy, powerful backers. And wrecks the economy with such counter-productive, FFailed policies.
 
M

MrFunkyZombaloo

Only the Germans, it seems and Noonan (for awhile) will continue this insane charade based apparently on a completely false economic metric!


My question now is that this destroyer of economies and peoples' lives (especially those of vulnerable people), where lies and lies the fiscal treaty (ie enshrining permanent austerity in the constitution), which The Irish people voted in their droves for last year, despite warnings from highly intelligent people such as myself and O'Cuiv that it was complete insanity!
As Enda said at the time, we are the only race in the EU that would vote for it!:mad:

Surely it's a completely unworkable piece of nonsense and has now been exposed as such!:mad:
Droves?

30% of the electorate voted for the Fiscal Treaty. 20% against. 50% didn't bother their holes. Ergo 70% of the electorate weren't bothered about signing up to the F.U.C.T.

I was of the opinion then that the Fiscal Treaty was not about austerity. It was about centralisation, increasing EU power and the ESM.
 

Zach Dingle

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Droves?

30% of the electorate voted for the Fiscal Treaty. 20% against. 50% didn't bother their holes. Ergo 70% of the electorate weren't bothered about signing up to the F.U.C.T.

I was of the opinion then that the Fiscal Treaty was not about austerity. It was about centralisation, increasing EU power and the ESM.
Unfortunately, that yes percentage from a few frightened misled people and a pile of rednecks is all it takes! This treaty was potentially more dangerous than anything that happened us at the behest of the Troika and was the most important treaty since we joined the common market!
 

Zach Dingle

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FF/FG/Lab shysters and conmen :mad:
The Shinners are implement up north what they claim to be 'again' down here! Now that's partitionist among'st other things!:oops:
Laughable their recent found support for the Guards re no cuts to their disgraceful pay levels under CP 2!
 
M

MrFunkyZombaloo

Unfortunately, that yes percentage from a few frightened misled people and a pile of rednecks is all it takes! This treaty was potentially more dangerous than anything that happened us at the behest of the Troika and was the most important treaty since we joined the common market!
I don't disagree completely. I did argue against signing up to it.
 

Zach Dingle

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It hasn't gone away, you know!
It is essentially as austerity is about substantialy reducing the living standards of everyone else to enable our betters to compete with the brics!
 

CarnivalOfAction

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FF/FG/Lab shysters and conmen :mad:
Yep, we thought the Bookie's scourge Bert was a one-off:

Emigrating for the craic…That’s all folks! : rabble

"You may not of ever heard of this guy but he’s solid gold. Minister (seriously) for Small Business John Perry responds to Sinn Féin’s Peadar Tóibín question about emigration by maintaing that loads of people are delighted to be heading off for Canada and the USA etc.

While doing a wonderful impersonation of Bertie Ahern imitating Porky Pig under pressure he manages to rattle off a rambling answer of incoherence. Classic. Set your ears to ‘stun’ it took us 5 listens to make out what he’s saying."
 

CarnivalOfAction

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It hasn't gone away, you know!
It is essentially as austerity is about substantialy reducing the living standards of everyone else to enable our betters to compete with the brics!
But it ain't working:

As the salt pillars of austerity crumble there will be enormous opportunities - Independent.ie

"Even Michael Noonan, a supporter up until yesterday, has had a volte face extraordinaire and is now saying that the Irish presidency has been working tirelessly to dismantle austerity behind the scenes. This is obviously why the Irish presidency oversaw the austerity-driven shambles in Cyprus two weeks ago!"
 


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